Storage Heaters

[whiskeyomega]

Sorry its me again. I did ask about these three or four years ago.

In the end we got a Robinson Willey 2.4 kw heater which works ok and is on in my hallway because he wont allow us to have the bedroom ones on. The trouble is they no longer make them it seems not in the size I need now.

Anyway, scrooge husband is threatening to turn off a storage heater ( the only big one I have on in fact) because he says its broken ( which it probably is ) and running away with the electric.

This is the eco warrior who thinks we have to run the house ( all electric and no options!) in these freezing conditions for £50 a month. We are already down to 10 - 14 degrees around the house including the living rooms. I cant stand it any colder.

So anyway I have asked for a new storage heater for Christmas . I was having a dehumidifier for the kitchen which is still sopping wet but the heater has to come first.

My problem , what sort would be best value for money? Should I just get the cheapest? Are they all essentially the same? It has to be a 3.4KW to replace the one we have ( he will fit it if I get it - he fitted the last one). It will be an online purchase because I found it was cheaper than any local outlets .

Thanks for any advice on this.

[Owain]

It may be worth checking, if your heaters are controlled by a timeclock, that the timeclock is set at the correct time, otherwise it will be charging your storage heaters up at the expensive daytime rate.

Condensation is caused by lack of insulation / heat / ventilation and excess moisture. An extractor fan for the kitchen would probably help a lot.

Pretty all much of a muchness.

Owain

[whiskeyomega]

It may be worth checking, if your heaters are controlled by a timeclock, that the timeclock is set at the correct time, otherwise it will be charging your storage heaters up at the expensive daytime rate.

No there is nothing wrong with the clocks. Its just broken. We had the same problem with the other one we replaced. It probably isnt *costing* as much as he maintains but there you go.

excess moisture. An extractor fan for the kitchen would probably help a lot. My problem , what sort would be best value for money? Should I just get

Pretty all much of a muchness.

Do you know anything about a make called " Elnur" then? That seems to be the cheapest. or a Sunhouse ( know they used to make electric fires many years ago).

[Dave Liquorice]

Not unless there is a fault with the meter. When the time switch operates to turn on the heaters it also switches the meter to count units at the cheap rate. It doesn't matter what actual time of day that the heaters are on, when they are all power used will be counted at the cheap rate.

In this case lack of heat seems to be the most likely 'cause, though if the gutters are leaking down the walls that won't help.

Eco warrior husband needs a good "talking to" not having the place at a decent temperature is stuoid both form the damage to building (damp) and damage to your health. Both are young and own the current property, I can't see that moving to somewhere with a =A3500/month service charge plus bills makes any sense what so ever. =A3500.month would pay for a lot of maintenace upgrading of the current place. But it is a complicated picture, income level now a future when both are retired, any children (think inhertitance tax, maybe transfer the property to them now to remove it from your combined estate).

[John]

Useful site - for parts:

[Owain]

According to my "Sutherland" heating costs table (Scotland, May 2009) average cost of 3500kWh for average heating requirement of an average room, is =A3261 p.a. assuming 90% off-peak and 10% peak electricity using a combination of storage heating and electric fire top-up heat.

That assumes you are paying 6.10/13.49p per kWh off-peak/peak.

It also assumes you are heating all the rooms in your house as otherwise heat loss to unheated rooms will be excessive.

Owain

[js.b1]

E7 varies around the UK from about 4.5p to 6p inc VAT.

Size - storage charge / units - cost @ 6p/unit

- 0.9kW -- 6.3kWhr (units) charge -- 38p

- 1.7kW -- 11.9kWhr (units) charge -- 71p

- 2.55kW -- 17.85kWhr (units) charge -- 107p

- 3.40kW -- 23.8kWhr (units) charge -- 142p

Perspective - that assumes a 100% charge.

- Automatic set to max will only charge to 75% at +4oC overnight and only charge to 92% at -2oC overnight

- So the above figures are worst case scenario.

Reality - consider winter as 100 days.

- 100 days of winter means a 3.40kW costs =A3142

- No maintenance contract, no parts every few years

I can understand 14oC in bedrooms that are used. However your living room NEEDS to be 18oC+.

Dehumidifiers can cost nearly as much to run as a mid sized storage heater.

#1 - Draught excluder

#2 - Live under a proper duvet if possible, YOUR BODY needs 18oC environment even if that is just a micro-environment created by a duvet

#3 - Make CERTAIN that you are on ECONOMY 7 (or similar), you probably are for =A350/month electric

#4 - Fix the storage heater immediately or buy one on Ebay or Freecycle, they work, they are reliable, they are cost-effective for background heating (halls, feeding into bedrooms)

#5 - Consider a second storage heater if possible, a cold 3-bed house needs 2x 3.40kW (called "24kWhr") in the hallway without CWI and only loft insulation

#6 - Get the loft insulated because you have no chance of heating the place without insulation up there AND you will suffer horrendous descending cold air draughts

#7 - Dehumidifier is not a good solution as they blow cold air BUT will remove moisture, realise though they will struggle at below 14oC

#8 - Seriously consider a thro-the-wall cooker hood run only for pots steaming, reduce the moisture input into the house anyway you can. Window & wall fans do sod all compared to a suitable =A320-80 freecycle/ ebay/new cooker hood ducted thro the wall. Amazon do 107mm blue-spot bits for =A320 (you can resell on Ebay for =A312) and most drills will do

107mm unless you have engineering brick in which case just take bricks out and use oblong ducting with a round adapter as it makes life simpler/sane.

#9 - Woman? Wear thick rugby or thermal socks, seriously because it makes a big difference AND to circulation

Females suffer cold more than Males, whilst it may not be attractive, find a fleece top to wear which is long - it will make a substantial difference.

If you ever redecorate the living room, insulate substantially.

[js.b1]

Seen the other posts, one thought if you do stay...

- If he will not spend more on heat input

- Will he spend on insulation?

- Do you have loft insulation?

- Do you have cavity walls that can be insulated?

- Would he spend money insulating the living room?

B&Q do four extruded polystrene 1200x600mm 50mm slab for =A319, various builders merchants do Celotex 25mm for =A314 and 50mm for =A320 2400x1200 (celotex is about 50% better). It does not cost much to insulate the outside walls of a living room such that you can reduce heat loss from

1000W to 100W. That means you pay no more for heating but are monumentally warmer re 1) higher internal temperature 2) eliminating plunging cold draughts 3) reducing damp.

Some people can be SO OBSTRUCTIVE, hilarious you are having the problem with a man when I have it with my mother! Insulation is winning her over, and she has a lot more problems with her house than yours (lived in it 60yrs, nothing done really so down to me when time to progressively and "keyhole surgery" improvements).

For a good wallpaper that is cheap, textured, not offensive, easy to paint try Graham & Brown "bobble". It is a small random raised-dot pattern which actually works very well. Easy to get perfect on the wall, about =A36/roll (dozen rolls for =A342 delivered as I recall).

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "whiskeyomega" saying something like:

www.divorce-lawyers'R'us.com

[Theo Markettos]

That's puzzling. Apart from the clocks, the way electric heaters break is they stop producing heat. If they don't produce heat they don't consume electricity, and so get /cheaper/. If they are consuming electricity, you really would notice if it came out as kilowatts of light or sound (think concerts in Wembley Stadium). So it must be as heat. That heat has to go somewhere. So unless it's going up the chimney/out the window, if the clocks are correct the only conceivable way they could be costing you more is if they were hotter than intended. Laws of physics.

If he's being paranoid about electricity costs, it might be worth getting a digital electricity meter (either the plugin kind or the type you wrap around the meter tails). Cost about 20 pounds and will show you what you're using at the moment and the difference it makes switching appliances on and off. You might be surprised how little a contribution some things make.

Theo

[whiskeyomega]

Size - storage charge / units - cost @ 6p/unit

- 0.9kW -- 6.3kWhr (units) charge -- 38p

- 1.7kW -- 11.9kWhr (units) charge -- 71p

- 2.55kW -- 17.85kWhr (units) charge -- 107p

- 3.40kW -- 23.8kWhr (units) charge -- 142p

Perspective - that assumes a 100% charge.

- Automatic set to max will only charge to 75% at +4oC overnight and only charge to 92% at -2oC overnight

- So the above figures are worst case scenario.

Reality - consider winter as 100 days.

- 100 days of winter means a 3.40kW costs £142

- No maintenance contract, no parts every few years

I can understand 14oC in bedrooms that are used. However your living room NEEDS to be 18oC+.

Dehumidifiers can cost nearly as much to run as a mid sized storage heater.

#1 - Draught excluder

#2 - Live under a proper duvet if possible, YOUR BODY needs 18oC environment even if that is just a micro-environment created by a duvet

#3 - Make CERTAIN that you are on ECONOMY 7 (or similar), you probably are for £50/month electric

#4 - Fix the storage heater immediately or buy one on Ebay or Freecycle, they work, they are reliable, they are cost-effective for background heating (halls, feeding into bedrooms)

#5 - Consider a second storage heater if possible, a cold 3-bed house needs 2x 3.40kW (called "24kWhr") in the hallway without CWI and only loft insulation

#6 - Get the loft insulated because you have no chance of heating the place without insulation up there AND you will suffer horrendous descending cold air draughts

#7 - Dehumidifier is not a good solution as they blow cold air BUT will remove moisture, realise though they will struggle at below 14oC

#8 - Seriously consider a thro-the-wall cooker hood run only for pots steaming, reduce the moisture input into the house anyway you can. Window & wall fans do sod all compared to a suitable £20-80 freecycle/ ebay/new cooker hood ducted thro the wall. Amazon do 107mm blue-spot bits for £20 (you can resell on Ebay for £12) and most drills will do

107mm unless you have engineering brick in which case just take bricks out and use oblong ducting with a round adapter as it makes life simpler/sane.

#9 - Woman? Wear thick rugby or thermal socks, seriously because it makes a big difference AND to circulation

Females suffer cold more than Males, whilst it may not be attractive, find a fleece top to wear which is long - it will make a substantial difference.

If you ever redecorate the living room, insulate substantially.

Thank you. Many of the things you suggest ( draught excluders ) we already have. The place was well insulated by the last owners and they did many of those things.

The other things I cant do myself. I simply do not know how. Is it still possible to get the insulation stuff that they used to sell for walls ( like a polystyrene roll which was like wall paper but you put underneath before you papered a wall? I recall having that in my bedroom when I was a child ( in a cold house then)

But then I would have to learn to put the paper on the walls - and he would probably have an argument over it.

As for my clothing. I am currently wearing two pairs of trousers ( as well as underwear of course) three tops - a short sleeve tee shirt. a long sleeve tee shirt and a thick chunky cardigan , two pairs of socks ( his!) and a coat. I have got my gloves out but you cant type with gloves on. Its still cold. You can feel the cold in the air.

As for him, he hasn't got out of bed for the last three days. Its warmer there I suppose.

[whiskeyomega]

The heater he says is broken is the one in the hallway. It seems to be over heating as in it doesnt respond to the settings he has it on ( low!) and just gets hot. That currently means the hallway is the warmest room in the place - but it soon goes when the kitchen door is opened - thats the coldest room and the wetest ( condensation). he told me I could put bubble wrap over the door ( old wooden one ) to insulate it and keep the room warmer. He gave me some old bubble wrap paper and I have drawing pinned it to the door. It hasnt done a fat lot to be honest. The door is still dripping with moisture as are the windows. He has now given me some polystyrene sheeting ( he got around the last heater we bought as packing) and has told me to cut it to size and put it on the door, but I dont know how to make it stick.

I managed to get the window shut last night but its still wet in there. Thats where I want the dehumidifier. There is no heat in the kitchen. No heater, nothing and its a room with two outside walls. .

[Bob Minchin]

The way you describe things it does seem that he is the biggest block on improving your lot. I feel you have to attack the problem in layers and without an attitude change from your partner you are going to continue to struggle Have you a son/daughter/close friends/work colleagues/church who could lend moral support and make him see that certain things just have to be done? Does he have friends who he would listen to and who you could also talk to. Invite them round for an evening so they can see how you are living. Sorry if this seems to be interfering in your personal circumstances but ... I wish you the very best of luck. Bob

[Dave Liquorice]

Provided that what the display is telling you is interpreted correctly. They show instantaneous consumption as the headline figure.

Which costs more? Which looks more?

3kW for 3 min or 300W for an hour.

The 3kW uses *half* the energy of the 300W.

[Owain]

Yes, they sell it in B&Q.

Your house is not warm enough.

Staying in bed for 3 days is not normal. This would seem to strengthen other people's suggestions of some form of depression.

Owain

[The Medway Handyman]

Not wishing to be rude, but sorting the heating out isn't going to solve your problems. You need to sort your life out.

[Owain]

If you insulate the door between the kitchen and the hall the kitchen will be colder and the condensation worse.

That's where the problem is. Extractor fan to remove moist air, dry lining to insulate walls.

Owain

[ARWadsworth]

Yes, they sell it in B&Q.

Your house is not warm enough.

Staying in bed for 3 days is not normal. This would seem to strengthen other people's suggestions of some form of depression.

Owain

From what I see on the TV at customers houses I suggest the Jeremy Kyle Show.

Adam

[Owain]

... as the affliction or the cure?

Owain