Stone carving for beginners?

Hi All,

The other day I got our 17yr old Daughter to brick up an outside flue hole in our next-door-neighbours ground floor bathroom extension.

We had been to the local building suppliers together and bought the correct bricks (LB Ironstone) some sand / cement mortar mix and we picked up a nice light / reasonably long chisel to suit her untrained hands.

Our objective was to remove all the disk cut bricks and replace them with full ones.

I first showed the general techniques, how to get a brick out without damaging the brick around it etc, gave her some safety goggles and some light work gloves and set her going.

She actually stuck at it for quite some time and especially seemed to enjoy removing some of the more stubborn bits of mortar (you know that satisfaction you get when you get behind a good bit and it comes away cleanly) ;-)

Anyway, this lead onto the idea of her doing some stone carving but we don't really want to invest too much money in any 'specialised' kit (might be ok if the stuff could be used for other d-i-y roles etc). Googling about reveals a few but most are up in the £100+ bracket.

Now I know the job will be much easier with the right tools but this is just an experiment for a fairly artistic and pretty competent (in a general sense) person who learns fast (we still have the little ornament she made with my MIG welder when she was about eight and it bears the most perfect 'J' on the surface, much better than I could have done even now!). The trouble is, like many kids today I'm not sure she has the patience to see a carving through to the end, not helped by the fact I know how fussy she is should something go wrong (like a bit breaks off etc). But, I'm still keen to give it a shot .. you never know if this is 'the thing' that she's does for a living etc.

So, with that in mind, does anyone have any ideas how we could best / easiest give some basic stone carving a go, what materials could be used and from where please? (You know like with some of these fancy expensive chemicals .. after you have bought them you find you could have just as easily used vinegar or brown sauce etc). ;-)

All the best and thanks for your time.

T i m

p.s. I already have a selection of cold / pointing chisels that could be tidied / ground up if needed and a range of hammers to use instead of a dummy, just to get us going etc. I also have a roll of that rubber anti-slip mat some of the kits seem to offer to work on.

Reply to
T i m
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=================================== You could cast a block using sand and cement (a mix similar to concrete but omitting the aggregate) as a basic block of 'stone'. Standard cold chisels (smaller widths) including a 'scutch' chisel would be useful starter tools. A round mallet would be safer than hammers - less danger of mis-hitting.

Cic.

Reply to
Cicero

My step father was a sculptor. He used to get most of his tools and so on from:

They appear to be selling much the same stuff as ever.

Stone he often got from local monumental masons. Maybe an "accident at their yard would be cheap to acquire? Often quite decent, carvable stone with a reasonable finish - useful for starting things like lettering.

Reply to
Rod

Now *there's* an idea! (and why I love it here). I guess she could even cast a basic starting shape to suit the general shape of the job .. like using a bucket or box etc.

So, sharp sand / cement, 3:1 or a bit harder?

Check ..

I think I have one somewhere but if not they tick my 'not expensive' and 'useable elsewhere' criteria so I could get one. ;-)

A mallet made of wood you mean Cic? I could probably knock up a steel 'dummy' (in the lathe) but that cylindrical hitting surface looks more prone to glancing off the end of a chisel than a flat one. Anyway, isn't an odd thump on the thumb / hand how we learn how to use these tools quicker? ;-)

All the best and thanks again ..

T i m

Reply to
T i m

Cool. Isn't it (is it?) a shame that such skill / trades seem to be being lost these days?

Yeah, I Googled into them earlier and they do what (to me) looks like a good little starter kit but we are still talking £100.

Another thing that cropped up was the mention of 'firesharp' tools ... and that they can't be sharpened, unlike tungsten tipped?

If it's not broken etc .. and I guess this field hasn't changed for a good few (thousand) years now?

Oooo, good idea. Maybe I'll have a word with the local Funeral Parlour (and they might point me in the right direction).

I have a mate who supplies granite worktops but that may be stage two of this experiment! ;-)

All the best and thanks ..

T i m

Reply to
T i m

Casting a block of sand&cement bears no resemblance to actual stone in terms of chipping away at it to for an object. It will never giveher the feel of the hamer and chisel as real stone would.

Reply to
George

---------------------------- Since I've never actually tried it I would suggest a few small experiments to create various simulations ranging from sandstone to granite - sandstone being the preferred starter, I would think.

------------------------------------

Definitely not wood, more like heavy plastic or nylon which can be very durable especially used with steel tools - check your soft-faced hammer if you have one.

I think the idea of a round mallet is that you concentrate on the tip of the chisel rather than the head which is the important thing if you're trying to cut along a precise line. As far as the occasional knock is concerned, I generally agree that it's almost inevitable but still to be avoided if possible. Hands are our most valuable tools and easily damaged. As a general comment, I would suggest looking for early signs of 'claw hand' or anything else likely to cause discomfort through over-use. I've seen some older craftsmen with hands unable to open because of prolonged use of simple tools like knives and I would guess that this kind of injury would be seen in older stone workers.

----------------------------

Cic.

Reply to
Cicero

Ok .. but that may not actually matter as such. What I mean is it may still give here a (cheap / easy) opportunity to shape something from a hard material .. not 'stone' carving as such of course but not woodwork or clay either.

Ok, so what should we be looking out for please, as a good 'starter stone' that would offer the workability you suggest?

All the best ..

T i m

Reply to
T i m

================================== The object is to give a young girl a bit of a taster at little expense. Stone obviously comes in various degrees of hardness so the important thing here is to introduce her to basic skills even if the feel of the 'stone' isn't exactly right. Better to waste half a bag of sand and cement than an expensive lump of granite.

Cic.

Reply to
Cicero

Chipping away at sand&cement is futie becaue it'll brea off in big hunks as opposed to what you didn't want.

Try going o a local stone quarry,I'm sure they'll give you a piece for nowt?

Reply to
George

6:1 would be easier to work and cost less, and fwiw embody less energy.

Are those round mallets easier on the hands when one misses?

NT

Reply to
meow2222

Couldn't help noticing when looking for coping recently that "yorkstone substitute" seems to be easy to get hold of. No idea what it consists of but it may carve well, and I imagine there must be offcuts when they cut it to size for you. Must also say that you sound like the perfect parent for an artistic child. Just get her into accountancy before it's too late :-)

Reply to
Stuart Noble

In message , T i m writes

I would have thought that a nice bit of sandstone would be a good starter medium - it's relatively soft (FSVO) and it's traditionally what stone masons tend to carve things out of

Reply to
geoff

You got a teenager to work? Genius!

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Yep, and that's what sorta rang a bell when Cic mentioned the sand / cement blocks .. a pseudo-sandstone if you will? ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

Reply to
T i m

Indeed and further to that, potentially demonstrates 'ingenuitive solutions' to prolems. We don't have a lump of suitable stone at our disposal but do (as it happens) have half a bag of sand n dust left over from the brickwork job (that is bound to be solid by the time we go to use it next).

If it doesn't work as well as a proper piece of natural stone (as George suggests might be the case) then that's another lesson learned. ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

Reply to
T i m

Ok, so this would be from a big / decent builders merchant Stuart, or my local quarry (although I can't say I've ever noticed we have one)? ;-)

Well, I / we try . I can't be much of an educator as in the current use of the word but I do try to be a facilitator where she shows an interest in something and will take that further if she continues the interest, especially if I could also make use of anything bought in the future.

She lasted 3 months on a 3D Design BTEC L3 because that was about the only course offered at a local college that may have been suitable, it actually wasn't. We had all the chats and tried to encourage her to stay (she was one of her Tutors 'top students etc') but we could see it really wasn't what she wanted to do.

So, as she's 'off' [1] she's helping me do stuff, partly because often it's nice for me to have the extra pair of hands or even just the company but I try to involve her in it as much of it as possible in the hope it will help broaden her horizons, or at least expose her to other 'trades' and skills, even if to be able to rule them out as a career.

I could have bricked up this hole in a fraction of the time it took her but it was too good an opportunity miss. I always offer to involve her in such tasks. She agreed to try, followed my instructions accurately and made a very good job in an awkward situation. Thinking out loud to her .. " .. if / when you get your own place and you fancied a brick built b-b-q .... " etc etc.

I also got her involved in re-assembling the Zanussi washing machine I've saved from landfill recently (that DID have a sealed tub ) and when we had finished that we started on the Ariston I was given that had also just thrown it's bearings. She removed the lid and back panel, looked inside and said "do we really have to bother with this Dad? It's nasty, it stinks, Mum doesn't like it and *I* think it's a POS ... " . so she put the panels back on and we carried it out into the back garden! She has also been involved helping me tidy an old CB 'Two Fifty' [2], especially handy when it came to applying the new graphics .. I really don't have her 'eye'! ;-)

Oh yeah, she would love that of course (not). Joking aside and in spite of getting a C in her Maths GCSE recently, maths isn't one of her strong points (possibly par for the course for someone of a more 'artistic' bent?). I think she can do it but she actually mentioned yesterday that often simple maths appears as a confusing jumble of noise in her head, so much so that she feels (her words) that she might have some number blindness of some sort? That was brought on when she asked me what a third of 150 was and I just looked at her over my glasses.

However, that doesn't generally fit with being the 'Highest girl achiever' several years running, having the highest music qualifications out of the entire school (all years), getting the highest GCSE results of any girl in her school last year and getting in the local paper etc. [3]

I really hope she finds a niche and although I feel she will do well eventually I think there is going to plenty of trial and error before she get's there.

But then I didn't have a clue what I was going to do as a living when I was 17 and it was my Mum that signed me up for an interview with BT and hence I formally got into 'electronics repair' via their Datel service.

All the best ..

T i m

[1] My Mum and dad have (kindly) signed her up to one of these home writers Guild courses as she was showing interest in that area. She has received the feedback from the first module and they seem very impressed with her work. She's also got herself a regular spot in a local paper, doing a 'Teen's view' type thing and they give her full rein to submit whatever she wants (and so far they have printed every word, her picture an all ). She booked herself on a one day 'Newspaper and Magazine article writing' course but it turned out to be more focused towards 'hard news' and so was a bit of a let-down. It turns out she was the youngest there but one of the few to have had anything printed (even if only in a local rag). ;-)

She is also looking to write a book of some sort but like many 'creative types' can only do said when 'in the right mood'. :-(

[2] She may take on the bike herself if / when she takes and passes her test soon. She's currently riding a Piaggio Skipper (125cc 4/ scooter). [3] Her boyfriend had the highest GCSE results in his school. ;-)
Reply to
T i m

Yeah, I generally can Dave. ;-)

Ok, sometimes it takes a bit to get them going but once started I find most of them (on their own especially) are actually keen to please.

Plenty of praise (when it's due) and encouragement or reassurance whilst pointing out how it could be done 'differently' or even 'better'?

Whilst showing her how to do this little brickwork job (and I'm no bricky) she was paying the price for being a bit slow .. mortar going stiff quickly and not allowing her time to bed the brick accurately etc (not helped by the location or the job itself of course). I was pleased to say she took my suggestion of just pulling the brick out, cleaning it off and starting again on at least one occasion. Nothing like looking back and wishing you had done it better eh. ;-)

As my old Dad used to say ... "Whatever you do do, do do well" (mind you, he was drunk most the time) ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

Reply to
T i m

Ah, ok ... I didn't know if that would make it too crumbly as such?

Probably!

Funny though isn't it .. how good we (humans) are good at doing that sort of thing without looking at the hammer and the end of the chisel.

When she started she did catch herself a couple of times (not helped by the 'protective' gloves being a bit big for her) but luckily only sufficiently to help her learn that she didn't want to do it too often. ;-)

I think that being 'a girl' actually helped with the exercise to some degree. The object (as I saw it) was to remove any 'cut' bricks as quietly (folk next door) and gently (minimizing the damage to the surrounding bricks) as possible. I also didn't want her hurting herself. So I showed her how to hold / aim the chisel to have the maximum effect, with minimum risk whilst getting the job done in a reasonable time. She was happy to keep chipping away and not using too much force or effort and did a perfect job. ;-)

Anyway, isn't the odd barked knuckle how we learn to manage risk and new skills etc?

All the best ..

T i m

Reply to
T i m

Casting it into a shallow slab rather than a block might make it easier to come up with a suitable project. A small plaque with the house number incised and some border work would be more quickly achievable, and useful, than a bust of Shakespeare.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

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