That ought to be your tag line Dribble.
Jovial banter aside, Drivel you ought to take some time off you know, you are sounding ever more unhinged with every post. Too much stress is probably not good for someone of your age.
A disjointed man. Sad but true. This happens in Essex.
Its odd he never thinks to go learn stuff.
NT
It certainly was.
[snip text of no consequence]
When it comes to heating and water I have no need to - I am the teacher. Read and take note of all I write on the subject. You will learn. Notice I don't make issues with Andy Wade on electrical as he knows what he is on about. Yet you, and the uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated) members take issue with a heating and water expert, when it is clear all of you know very little. In real life face to face I would dismiss you as a know-it-all amateur if you have that tone and attitude, and would not give you the time of day. The Internet means you get the attention of people like me, and the unwary think that you might actually know what you are on about.
People come here for help, it is those I am concerned about, not the uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated) members - they can all f*ck themselves as far as I am concerned and only worth having a laugh at. They put one boiler in, badly, and then are experts on all thing heating - laughable. If they counter and put forward amateur views I will put them down strongly - and that goes for anyone, that is why I have a go at Sirrett, who is way out of touch.
Yep one tap with a pump on it. The uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated) strikes again. ROFLMAO. You can't beat a good laugh.
A teacher that thinks he has no need to learn is a very bad teacher, generally an incompetent.
I've learnt not to bother reading you mostly.
I should be so lucky
There must be a name for this, but I cant think what it is.
NT
Well stay in ignornace.
???
What do you mean '???' ?
If the primary is unvented you have an unvented hot water cylinder of >15l requiring all the appropriate safety controls. This rapidly gets outside DIY.
You missed it.
Some quick recovery cylinders can be quite expensive. I gave a solution which would outperform a quick recovery vented cylinder using a bronze pump, plate heat exchanger and cheap direct cylinder. The flow and return to the coil would just go into the plate heat exchanger. The plate and pump replaces the quick recovery coil. The bronze pump is switched in at the same time DHW is called. This will take all the output of a 40,50,60kW boiler outperforming a quick recovery coil and cheaper in many cases.
Then I said if the mains pressure is good, using a flow switch and a cheaper pump a heat bank can be made from the same components. The cylinder will be vented at atmospheric pressure. The only high pressure is in one side of the plate. All cheap and works a treat.
I don't think so ...
Yes I got that but that wasn't what I was talking about.
Yes, that was what I was responding to. I said that it gives excellent recovery (which mine certainly does) but I pointed out that the primary must be vented (which you didn't specifically mention in your earlier post though you do above).
So are we agreed? Vented primary + direct cylinder + pump + flow switch + PHE = DIY heat bank/thermal store.
My only reservation is that with my cheap standard direct cylinder ("Screwfix Direct direct cylinder") the amount of hot water you get from it off the electric immersion is probably only enough for a shower. I think it really needs a larger cylinder, and/or maybe an immersion heater mounted at the bottom of the cylinder to _reduce_ stratification when heated electrically. Probably something like a large off-peak storage cylinder would be more suitable.
I suspect that this will generally be a problem with immersion heaters anyway.
If you dump heat into an indirect cylinder from a boiler at 25-30kW, there will be considerable convection currents inside the cylinder. Obviously a direct cylinder is something else.
With an immersion running at 3kW, there is much less convection, as witness the stratification that occurs anyway.
Then unless the heater can be set to 75 degrees or more, the energy storage will be more limited vs. running at boiler flow temperatures.
No, you never. We shall see.
The primary does not have to be vented at all. The cylinder can be heated via a coil and the primaries a part of a sealed unvented system. The only time they require venting, is if the cylinder is being heated directly.
You never got it.
It doesn't have to be heated directly.
A large thermal store is an advantage if electric only. But an eletric boiler and pump will heat it up reasonably fast.
Nope. Having a TMV (UFH type) on the boiler flow/return ensures only up to temp water enters the cylinder. From heat from cold of 20C the cylinder will heat from top down. You can feel the line of say 75C working its way down the cylinder, while just below the line it is 20C. Stratification is maintained
Additional component.
I was talking about heating with a coil. In that case, it certainly isn't
Matt, you are stupid and should not comment on things you know sweet FA about. Post about Makitas, that is your level.
The primary _does_ have to be vented if you are using an ordinary direct cylinder which is what we were talking about. Or actually what _you_ were talking about and what I followed up on.
I know, you know, you know that I know and I know that you know that thermal stores can be heated indirectly, but this is not what we were talking about.
This is exacerbated in systems using external (plate) heat exchangers because the pump circulating water round the PHE runs at full bore regardless of the demand, so if you draw a gentle shower or run a hot tap at part flow you're liable to lose most of your hot water capacity through mixing within the cylinder long before you would have done if you were drawing only enough to provide the amount of DHW demanded. It should be easy enough to fix this either cleverly by modulating the pump or brute-force by restricting the flow with a TRV type affair. Either way would have the added benefit of doing away with the need for a TMV on the output of the PHE.
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