patio door lock playing up time to change euro cylinder.
been reading about the crims snapping and "bumping" ordinary euro cylinders etc
"snapsafe" cylinders seem to be surprisingly(sic) expensive.... unless anyone knows different and can kindly whisper in my direction :>)
thanks in advance Jim
I am going to wander slightly off topic here.
Most houses have windows. Most windows break. Entry into property can be gained by many different means. In the end if someone wants to break in, they tend to simply smash the weakest link they know about and get in.
In the final analysis, the locks on your doors are more about pleasing the insurance company, than stopping people getting in.
My previous house was burgled. It had window locks (insurance req.) . They were not locked. Fortunately the perps simply used a crowbar on the whole thing, and smashed the whole catch rather than break a pane and lift the catch.
Unless you are going for steel doorframes its no harder to smash a lock than smash half the frame.
I've never seen a patio lock that couldn't be fixed with a jemmy.
Firstly, if the patio door "lock" is playing up, it's unlikely to be a problem with the cylinder per se; it's much more likely to be a problem with some other aspect of the lock mechanism.
Many in the trade think that snap safe cylinders are a bit of a gimmick. They like 'em: - When people are locked out, they come along, snap off the front part of the cylinder, then it's a piece of piss to bump/pick what's left.
Better to buy a cylinder which doesn't have a standard Yale section (so crims are much less likely to have a suitable bump key), make sure that the cylinder doesn't protrude from the front face of the door furniture and, if possible, fit a security (i.e. solid) escutcheon so that snapping is less of an option.
Furthermore, having a general review of your perimeter security (and particularly your security lighting) is always a good idea, the theory being that you want to make your property unattractive, so the crims won't bother to try - and cause you to need to buy another replacement cylinder...
If you're set on a snap-safe cylinder, you've got three mainstream options:-
"Squire snapsafe"
"Garrison break secure"
"ICL snap safe"
You can get an ICL job for about £20, A Squire or a Garrison will cost you £30+
e.g.
I used this company:
The 3KS is expensive, but seems highly regarded in the industry.
Haven't tried lock bumping myself, but youtube is full of demo's and how-to's.
But - having tried a well-known method of beating bicycle radial-pin u- locks *and been successful with a top-brand product on my very first go* - I felt the risk of some local crim learning how to get into my home, and leaving me with a no-forced-entry theft and potentially a reluctant insurance company - that 65 quid to ensure *I* couldn't get in without either the key or quite a bit of physical damage (I know there are no weak points left) - was money well spent.
If the lock is playing up - are you sure it isn't the mechanism behind the lock - or its adjustments that are the cause of your problem.
Just to confirm definitely cylinder problem - difficulty getting key (s) in and out!
ta for links and interesting thoughts as always
cheers Jim
Worth asking your local locksmith if they are an agent for EVVA. As previously mentioned they are high quality and you do get what you pay for. DPS cylinders can't be bumped as they have additional pins at 90 degrees to the main set of pins. The locksmith also said they can't be easily drilled as each pin is hardened. Keys can't be cut by non authorised persons so you control the keys. If you lost a key you can have the cylinders re-pinned so you don't have to buy new keys (assuming there is enough depth on the key). Locksmith said this could be done several times for a set of keys.
Also if you have other euro cylinders you could get them all keyed alike. AFAIR, a keyed alike cyl with a few keys is in the region of =A350-60. Also as others have mentioned the snapping problem is only an issue if there is too much of the cylinder protruding to get leverage on.
Dave.
Sorry to burst your bubble:
The locksmith also said they can't be
Some of the top pins will be hardened, not all of them (usually two or three out of five)
The reality is that EVVA secure cylinders are sufficiently rare that your local crim is not likely to have a bump key for one.
easier, I used to be able to open one in about 20 seconds using a small screwdriver and a paper clip.
You applied rotational pressure with the screwdriver just as he did with the bent metal. Then you flicked all the pins up using the paper clip. Some would catch due to mechanical tolerances. After a couple of flicks it opens. I believe bump keys do a similar thing.
Nearly everyone in the office could do it after being showed how.
much rarer, e.g.
Slight highjack of thread. I do a day a week repairing stuff at a local Uni. Accomodation is 3 'blocks' each divided into 8 'flats' divided into 5 'rooms, all have eurocylinders..
Each student has 2 keys, one of which opens the main block door. The other key opens their flat door and their room door. Their block key only opens their specific block door, other key only opens their flat & room.
I sign out a master key that opens any of the buggers! I've read a few sites about master keys, but I can't get my head around this at all!
DPS is a "conventional" pin tumbler cylinder with an additional side-bar. The "profile" (the shape of the key through it's section) is by no means standard.
The 3KS system works on an entirely different principle. It is inherently bump-proof and AFAIK nobody is owning up to being able to pick it. Also, the 3KS system is one with 30 billion possible variations so they never have to make the same variation twice (unless you want two locks keyed alike, of course).
Seconded. I've got one of the 3KS EVVA locks on my french doors and also one for my folks only door to their bunglaow (single side door, not front and back door) and I'm very happy with them. £65 for a lock is nothing really.
Two slightly different "concepts" at work here:
Even though there are only a relatively few locks involved, your system is quite a complex master keyed suite where common entrance is achieved by "inverted mastering" (a load of different sub-master keys are created which all operate the same door (i.e. flat entrance) and one other (i.e. their room)).
You may well be thinking that each student's room key is a "change" key (the lowest level in the mastering hierarchy) in fact, the flat common entrance door is the "change" key and each "room key" is a sub-master.
The block key is also a sub-master which works higher up the hierarchy.
The suite will have been designed by some software which worked out all the required permutations, and then extensively checked (and modified the arrangement) to ensure that unintended/undesirable effects could not occur.
Thanks Dave. I'm gonna have to read that a few times :-)
Ah, I didn't look too closely at the picture.
And they're 'poper' billions, none of the merkin mini-billions. Still, give India and China long enough...
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