Some construction piccies of Arfa's Burger Joint ...

[The Medway Handyman]

I'd grass him up to someone Dennis, its your civic duty.

[Arfa Daily]

You see, this is where nannying people gets really silly. It's a shop. Chances are it will have doors on the front so that it can be made secure when it's not open. When the lights are on inside, it's probably open, but there's a better than even chance that the doors are closed, so don't just walk into them. And if your eyesight is so bad that you can't see shop doors made from bloody great blue powder coated steel frames with shiny glass in them, then you really need to either see a good optician, or register for a guide dog. And if your eyes are that bad, then I guess you probably know to be careful about such things. As for kids running into shop doors, we've all done it ourselves, and I'm sure all of our own kids have. The doors ain't gonna break, and about the worst that's going to happen, is the kid is going to get a bruised forehead, and a bruised ego, but a valuable lesson in the dangers of being alive. And they are sliding doors with motors.

Arfa

[Tim Watts]

Good - they'll only do it once. If they persist, there's always the hope of Darwin kicking in.

For God's sake - it's because of this type of thinking that this country is full of inept fools.

[Tim Streater]

Well Arfa's doors are sliding - safe enough except in a Bond movie. But some doors can be dangerous. I was once in a restaurant in Geneva, and the door was hinged not on the edge, but at top and bottom, in such a way that when the door was open, there was a gap you could put your hand in. And in this instance, there was a kid with its hand in the gap, pushing the door shut with the other hand. I *just* managed to get there before the kid's hand was crushed.

[Toby]

The shop next door to my dads business had clear glass in the main large window, a child ran into this and managed to break it, knocking him out, my dad dragged him out from under the unbroken secton of glass above the broken piece, only to then see that piece slide down guillotine style....

[Dave Liquorice]

My father was "registered blind" he only had one eye and that had a cateract. He could see well enough to move around and do things but any bright source of light within his field of vision would get scattered by the cateract making seeing very difficult indeed.

Large clear glass doors really do need something on them to show if they are open or not, it doesn't take much. A 4" wide band of frosting somewhere about the middle on yours would be enough or just

1' dia logos on each just above center. TBH having something on the doors would look better anyway, to me it looks as if the frosting job hasn't been finished with the plain clear glass doors.

I'm not a great fan of the box ticking health and safety mentality but if small child does run into you doors bounces off and splits skull when they hit the pavement. HSE *will* look at those doors and ask why there are no markings on them.

[dennis]

Only a few percent of blind people have dogs.

I broke one once, Woolies in West Bromwich.

Or worse. The H&S practices that have been around for a few decades aren't made up rules by idiots in schools, they are there because things have happened in the past that need to be avoided.

Well at least they can't swing and hit someone.

Anyway you are taking a very negative view on this.. its an opportunity.. even if its only a sticker with your opening times or burger of the week. You could even stick a cheap LED picture frame to the door and have a powerpoint slide show giving enticing images to get people into the shop.

[dennis]

Nice to see that you think the people with sight problems are inept fools. What does that make you?

[dennis]

When I worked for Chubb alarms in Brum (only for about 6 months in ~1971) there was a drunk who put his arm through a window.. we know, because the boarding up squad found it in the pile of glass. The police found the guy later standing in the queue for fish and chips with blood everywhere and nobody taking any notice of it. I have been very careful with glass since.

[Owain]

Powered doors can be deceptive - you expect them to open for you, so you carry on walking.

But on the day they don't open, or open slowly ...

Building Regulations N2, Manifestation of Glazing, is relevant.

version, may have been superseded)

Owain

[Arfa Daily]

Yeah, OK. I take the points being made, but I'm not stupid, you know. I've managed to get through the better part of 60 years so far without killing myself, or anyone else - including customers - as a result of any negligent practices. Likewise, my kids have managed to rack up over 75 years between them, without harming themselves, or others, so between the lot of us, we must be doing something right. Of course, you are always going to be able to find some one-in-a-million possibility in any situation, and everyone's got an anecdotal - although I often suspect urban myth-ish - tale of woe to cover any possibility, no matter how remote, but in years gone by, people took responsibility for working these things out for themselves, and teaching their kids. It really annoys me that now, kids and their parents are so thick, that common sense has to be legislated for, instead of learned ...

Arfa

[Tim Watts]

People with sight problems usually compensate with either holding their hand out or have a stick. Even a clear glass door has enough visual clues such as handles or metal framing. I've yet to encounter a door that was totally devoid of any clues.

You must be from the same school of people that insist on puting bright yellow panels on train doors.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Just be guided by the building regulations in this case, which IIRC are quite specific.

If the door has a 'substantial frame' then full glazing is OK

Otherwise simply stick something on 1.5 meters from ground level.

A corporate logos is fine.

What does the BCO say?

[Owain]

Or a no smoking sign.

Are they mandatory in England?

Owain

[dennis]

What is wrong with that? Next you will be saying you don't need white lines on roads.

[John Williamson]

They tried that in a town in the Netherlands, and they found that the accident rate went down.......

In fact, they removed *all* lane markings, traffic signs and traffic lights, and just let people get on with it. Accidents went down, and the average speed of all traffic, including bikes, went up.

[Tim Streater]

And probably all the car drivers got home with a headache due to having to concentrate much harder than before - bikes, people, all where you shouldn't have to be expecting them.

[dennis]

Maybe drivers can see over there.. they obviously can't over here or they wouldn't keep getting caught by the bright yellow speed cameras.

IMO its not possible to get caught by a bright yellow speed camera unless you are *really* stupid. So stupid that they should put 12 points on for each offence.

[dennis]

rubbish, you should be expecting them anyway.

[John Williamson]

Apparently, it all worked very well, with people being remarkably sensible about where they went. They claimed it was due to road users not having to concentrate on all the signs, and just be aware of traffic conditions. The rules of the road all still applied, in that you had to drive/ ride on the right, and pedestrians sensibly kept to the pavements unless they were crossing the road, while paying attention to oncoming traffic. Give way to the right is the main rule, and that's easy to apply.

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