Today I tried to make a start with the plumbing but have hit a problem. My blowlamp doesn't get the copper pipe / T joint hot enough to melt the solder. It is a gas blowlamp that takes the small aerosol type screw on cans of butane gas.
The flame was full force, bluish tinge to it and after ten minutes moving the flame around one end of the T joint where the pipe entered it still wouldn't melt the tip of the reel of (Wickes) plumbing solder when I touched it against the joint. I gave up at that point. Surely if it was going to melt the solder it would have done so after a minute or two?
As far as I can see I did a good preparation job. I cleaned the end of the pipe with wire wool and the inside of the joint with some rolled up fine Emery cloth. Coated both surfaces immediately with Wickes traditional flux and pushed them together twisting the joint slightly to smear the flux evenly inside.
Advice anyone please? Is it simply a case that I need a more powerful blowlamp?
I have previously used ones similar to what you describe, and though it wasn't great, it certainly was able to heat 15 + 22mm pipe enough to melt solder.
Is there something sinking the heat, like water in the pipe?
I now use a mapp gas torch, and much prefer it. Something very like this:
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will get the joint up to heat much more quickly and evenly, in my experience.
I bought a small handheld MAPP gas torch a few months ago at a DIY shed - $20 (what, 15 quid?) for the torch and attached bottle. Seems to work very well.
Thats a bit odd.Any chance of seeing a pic of the gun . It doesn't take a lot of heat really to do whats needed .
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I use a fairly ancient Camping Gaz one, so can't really help with what's available today. If doing a lot it would make sense to use the type with a separate bottle with a hose to the business end as the running costs are lower. But no need for occasional DIY. You said you were given it - perhaps it originally came with a selection of nozzles and you've got one which is too small?
The one I've got is fine for everything - but needs to be on full belt for
A 4.5kg butane gas cylinder, with a flexible hose and a hand grip / controller, that takes a variety of nozzles from 15mm to 60mm diameter. It will do everything from small part soldering to stripping paint off a metal gutter.
Indeed - you get those useless electric clamp thingies from Antex which are only a hundred watts or so. Most blowlamps are 5 times that or more - unless you're talking jewellry ones.
Its quite possible to solder 15mm pipe with a very big electric soldering iron, Its also possible with a cooks Crême brulées torch, What on earth are you using
I used the cheapest £10 propane/butane mix blowlamp from Wickes for replumbing a house, including installing the whole heating system, all done in end-feed copper. It copes with fittings up to 28mm without any problems.
I'm struggling to imagine what you are doing wrong. There are blowlamps for mixed and pure gas, and the cylinders are interchangable, but it's usually obvious when you light it if you have the wrong type as the gas flow rate is wrong and you can't control the flame properly. If you haven't finished a joint within a minute, it's probably beyond completion, as the flux will have long since gone and the copper likely formed an oxide layer in the heat.
When I next came to buy a blowlamp, I spent a few quid more to get peizo ignition, but otherwise, I still use the cheapest type you can buy, as it copes fine.
Sounds wrong. The cheapest and nastiest blowtorch should be able to do that.
The flame should be mainly blue, not smokey yellow. Is it?
You need to hold the torch so that the hottest part of the flame is playing on the copper. That's normally around the tip of the blue 'vee' shape visible in the flame. Play this around the general area of the fitting.
If you've never done soldered joints before, then get some yorkshire ( solder ring ) fittings and play with them first. They help you get a feel for it.
For yorkshires: Wire-wool and flux all tubes, and even fitting interiors if you're starting out. Assemble fitting in such a way that it's not going to move. Torch it as described above, all parts of the fitting will melt around the same time. When bright solder-ring appears at the annulus, stop heating.
Be aware of graviy. Heat with a slight bias to the top, so the capillary action has time to work on the top connection before all the solder runs out of the bottom connection.
Only once you have mastered yorkshires would I suggest moving on to plain fittings.
Even so-called professionals can make an arse of these. The number of solder fittings I've seen which look like the solder-monster barfed over them is incredible. One advantage of yorkshires is that with internal solder application, they are visually very neat. No solder-barf.
F'd up fittings can be removed, if required. Heat and carefull application of force with some hen's legs ( 'water pump pliers' is the correct term, I think ) and a hammer. Then clean up the tube by heating and wiping the excess molten solder with a wet rag.
The gas cylinder was butane. My new cylinder is a calorgaz high power butane/ propane mix. This gives a better flame, more blue in it.
Discovered the nozzle on the torch could be moved a little. By moving it away from the bottle by a couple of millimetres it seems to be drawing in air better from the back two holes and the flame is more what I'd expect - pure blue and it is focussed into more of a point.
Tomorrow I'll try again, but am hopeful the above will make all the difference.
In increasing order of performance. (In all cases below, a swirly/cyclone flame burner - if available - is better for soldering copper pipes than a general purpose burner because it allows you to heat the joint from one-side only. i.e. the swirly flame wraps around the pipe).
Basic* butane blow-lamp with a disposable can.
Basic propane/butane blow lamp with a disposable can.
Pro** blow lamp/gas torch with Propane gas in a disposable can.
Pro gas torch with MAPP gas or Ultra gas in a disposable can.
Pro gas torch with refillable propane cylinder (What the trade generally uses for minor jobs/tight spaces).
Pro gas torch with MAPP gas or Ultragas with refillable container.
Torch-on-a-hose with a 3.9kg Propane cylinder. (What the trade uses for all general work).
e.g. older-style Taymar
** e.g. Bernzomatic/Rothenberger/Primus/Sievert
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For top-performance disposable-can work, I can recommend the Primus/Sievert 2335 Powerjet Ultra with 8706 cyclone burner.
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So, what's the difference between a blow-lamp and a gas torch?
Well an old-fashioned 'blow lamp' will have the following features: -
No integrated piezo ignition. (But newer/upscale models now do have this feature). Takes a while to warm up (i.e flares-out if you wave it about before it's warmed up). Definitely won't work upside down before it's warmed up. Probably won't work upside down very well at all (or indeed at any appreciable angle from the vertical). Doesn't have a swirly cyclone gas pattern.
A modern 'gas torch' will have the following features:
Integrated piezo ignition. Instant warm-up. Operation at any angle, including fully inverted without warm-up. Swirly cyclone gas pattern, so you can heat the joint from one side only.
The trade tends to go for the torch-on-a-hose with 3.9kg propane bottle solution because it's the cheapest option and you can get different burners (which go much more powerful than anything with an attached can/bottle).
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Classic British manufacturer of gas torches with a rubber hose is Bullfinch, but they don't do swirly cyclone burners.
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can also get similar stuff from Primus-Sievert (but with the option of swirly cyclone burners).
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can buy some Primus Sievert (Swedish made) and lots of Clarke-branded (Italian-made) stuff from Machine Mart.
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finally, Lidl currently has a offer on for a (German-made, I think) torch kit for £20 and 2-Bar propane regulator for £10, which is a reasonable deal, although Machine Mart (spit) has a better value deal for a kit with three burners(£26.44):
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of these deals have swirly/cyclone burners.
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Rothenberger is a mixture of re-branded Bernzomatic/Sievert product.
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Bernzomatic product is available from Screwfix and larger B&Q stores.
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if you already have a propane cylinder for some purpose or other, then you may wish to know that most of these torches/burners require a regulator set to 2 Bar.
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Comments & flames (no pun intended!) welcome. Cheers, Rumble
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember David in Normandy saying something like:
You're most likely just waving it at the pipe. Get the hottest part of the flame touching the pipework and move it around. You must must practice on some scrap to get the feel of it.
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