If your water is heated by electric, it is the same thing. From what I know all UK machines have an internal electric heater, to heater or raise the temperature in the water, which could have been heated by gas in the main water system.
What is your solution to the (then) requirement for a zero length pipe between the hot water cylinder and the machine? Or should the machine pump water out until it runs hot?
Well, it's the same to the extent that the water temperature is raised. :-)
If the water in the pipe between the DHW is cold, then it turns out to be uneconomical to soak the load with cold water, run cold water into the drain, and then attempt to achieve a minimum wash temperature by adding enough hot water to warm the cold water in the fabric.
Some areas of the US have a serious need to minimize water use and one of the major design goals is to reduce the demand. If you have a chance, check out the amount of water used in the top-loading Maytag Neptune - you'll be amazed.
In that machine there is a tiny sump between the tub and the drain; and the electrical heating (of only a tiny amount of water) is done there. The amount of water actually heated in the washer is unlikely to be anywhere near the amount of DHW drawn from the tank and left to cool in the pipe - or the amount of cold water wasted while the DHW traveled from the tank to the machine.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA
if you mean T between panel output and ambient, yes, if you mean between panel input and output, no.
I dont honestly see how, its just the physics of solar panels. With T_out =3D ambient, efficiency is at its maximum, somewhere in the region of 90%. When T_out =3D T_stagnation, efficiency =3D 0%, and you can draw a straight line between those 2 points.
I think that would be the simplest answer.
You realise you'll need 2 types of collector, flat plates will get your water warm but not fully hot. To heat the top hottest section of the store, vac tubes or concentrating collectors would be a lot more use for that bit.
sure, but it wouldnt get hot :)
Well I'd love to see you make a whole bunch of such manifolds that will survive 20 years of use. I cant see how it could be possible. If you fail, it'll be you on the roof fixing it. So if you do try I'd fit a row of isolating valves.
Sounds logical, if you have legal title to them. If you dont use them they sell for a good price. Look at navitron's prices, =A3220 for a 10 tube panel.
NT
Do you want me to put it more directly? I certainly can.
Then you were shall we say asleep.
thank you Captain Obvious. Have you provided a figure to rebut mine with? I take it you have nothing to contribute on that point.
NT
Disconnecting the heater makes it sit there forever waiting for the temp to be reached. Instead wire over one of the temp stats.
Cold washing works fine most of the time, but there are times here and there where hot is necessary to get a good result.
I never understood why almost no commercial washers dont have a cold wash setting, makes no sense.
Next comes the q of why use washing powder when you can use,..
NT
On 12 Mar 2006 19:09:06 -0800 someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@care2.com wrote this:-
People can draw their own conclusions from that assertion.
Excellent, more personal abuse.
Yes.
Wrong.
The message from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:
It's getting increasingly hard to find a hot/cold fill washing machine. They all appear to be cold fill only these days.
The message from snipped-for-privacy@care2.com contains these words:
I don't like washing machines that have fixed temperatures for given wash programmes - I prefer to be able to choose my own. If I want to run a long wash at 30°C then that's what I want to do - not have the machine force me to do it at 80°C instead. Some machines have a seperate thermostat dial - which makes a lot of sense.
On 10 Mar 2006 09:48:43 -0800 someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@care2.com wrote this:-
All people are not alike. Some want something simple. There are many reasons for this approach. Lack of skill is just one reason, another reason is less to go wrong. If people want that sort of thing then I see no reason to denigrate them. The Solartwin system has not got any lights or things like that, though they do supply a digital thermometer, it just works away in the background and lets people get on with more important things. The Imagination system has a few lights.
At the other end of the spectrum is something controlled by say
On 12 Mar 2006 23:26:24 GMT someone who may be "Bob Eager" wrote this:-
In a sensibly designed house the taps used most often will be near the source of hot water and the hot water pipes insulated. The washing machine will be too. As a result hot water will arrive at the machine almost instantly.
Some/many houses are badly designed. In these it probably makes sense to heat the water electrically, especially if there is a shortage of water.
What are you doing trying to operate a washing machine anyway? That's women's work.
Get back to the pub!
Mary
The message from David Hansen contains these words:
This is the answer I got this morning from Candy UK when I asked why they don't sell hot/cold fill machines.
Good morning due to the cold water in take the water level intake have been reduced washing machines only start to heat water at around 60degrees and above so hot water intake is not needed hence why it it more energy efficient
Make of that what you will.
As most DHW is 45-55C this is tripe. What they are hiding is that they want to put less in the thing.
Most DHW has cooled down to ambient temperature in the 'dead leg' from the store to the washing machine inlet valve. What is the _measured_ temperature of the inlet water at time A - start of fill; B - end of fill?
Translated from the Chinese?
Mary
>The message from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:
Via Swahili.
yes
saying that what you said was stating the obvious is not personal abuse
Did I miss it? What is your figure for the annual saving of a typical commercial DSHW system, and how do you arrive at that figure?
NT
Do you not think that other considerations should be considered far more important than this in sensible design?
NT
Its been a long time since I had one like that. I would prefer that too, but I understand why its not done. Most people refuse to put even
30 seconds thought into understanding how to use a machine, and will therefore fail to correctly operate a machine with separate stat, wash time, agitation and other controls. Selecting 'wool' or 'cotton' is a no brainer - well, almost.NT
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