Solar Panels - change of views on this NG?

[OG]

Whatever

[Vortex10]

Yes. Everything you need to know:

[The Natural Philosopher]

That URL actually says No. The FIT is not based on calculated capacity. The optimistic renewables lobby words on the income you MIGHT gain, however, *are*.

"You will require an additional electricity meter to measure the electricity that your system is generating (known as a total generation meter), and also to measure how much is being fed back into the electricity grid (if not deemed, this is known as an export meter or may be called a feed-in, feed-out meter)."

So if its a dark day in December, and your panels are covered in birdshit and the cement dust from next doors construction site turning in the late afternoon drizzle into precast concrete*, you may find yourself a lot less in pocket than you thought.

*as happened to my father in laws solar water installation. The cost of cleaning it wiped out 18 months of putative 'income'

[Frank Erskine]

What's a microgeneration technology, I wonder?

[The Natural Philosopher]

sub 5KW I think it says.

[chris French]

No, my friends had some installed last year, that's not how it works for them.

The production of electricity is measured using the meter. Like (AIUI) most domestic installs the meter isn't smart enough to track what is actually used and what is exported so they are deemed to export 505 of this and so get paid the FIT on this 50% of the amount generated.

[Dave Liquorice]

A system installed by an MCS acredited installer?

[Dave Liquorice]

I think we are getting our yes's an no's confused. B-)

Yes as in here is the evidence that no the FIT is not based on calculated capacity.

The FIT is fixed on an annual basis at the end of December for new systems regsistered from the following April to March, currently the

40 odd p/unit. I believe to get the FIT in the first place the system must have a meter in the feed from the PV panels.

The Export tariff is also fixed, currently 3p/unit and paid for all metered units exported to the grid on top of the FIT. In the abscence of an export meter you are deemed to export 50% of what you generate.

[Dave Liquorice]

generated for

Ooo, another variation. B-)

I think you'll find that your friends get paid the 40 odd p/unit FIT on the total metered generation and, as they have no export meter, an additional 3p/unit export rate based on 50% of the total generation.

[Chris J Dixon]

Unless you have a smart meter, (in which case they pay 3.1p for every unit actually measured as exported) you are "deemed" to have exported half of the amount generated. If you can contrive to use it all you still get paid for half.

Chris

[The Natural Philosopher]

Not very hard really. except on sunny days in summer

[andrew]

Run that one past me again: does this mean that a household with 4kW(e) capacity on the roof, no smart meter, generating some 2500 kWhrs/annum is paid the fit plus 3p/kWhr on 1250kWhrs?

That gives small (difference between current tarriff and 3p) incentive to shift consumption to daylight hours, or am I missing something?

AJH

[Vortex10]

Yup.

A 4kWp system is more likely to exceed 3500 kWH per year, and at sunny midday is likely to generate ~ 3.5kW. Approaching 30 kWh total per sunny Summer day

In a normal 4kWp domestic installation I expect well over 50% will be exported over a year so when the export is "deemed" it makes sense to run washing machines etc. when the sun is out because the leccy is basically free and it makes no difference to the export money.

You REALLY win if you have PV and and old fashioned mechanical meter (as I did for a few months). Then your bill "winds down" with export PLUS you get deemed export too.

Small video here:

[Dave Liquorice]

unambigous,

start

Not really as it doesn't fit with what the government approved advice site (Energywatch) says:

How the scheme works

However follwing the paragraph you quote there is this:

Lefthand doesn't know what the righthand is doing...

[Chris J Dixon]

There is a way that both can be true. If they measure the RPI in the period ending December (which won't be immediately available), they can use that to set the FIT for the following April.

Chris

[Colin Brook]

In message on Fri, 8 Apr

2011, chris French wrote

I've got my FIT statement for the quarter ending December 23rd in front of me:

Generated 138KW multiplied by 41.3p per unit - £56.99 Because I have no export meter I'm deemed to have exported 50% of what I generate ie: 69KW multiplied by 3p per unit. - £2.07 - Grand total for quarter £59.06

Next year the 41.3p per unit will be increased in line with R/CPI? And there will be a new purchase rate for the exported amount (still assumed to be 50% of generated until a smart meter is installed).

The per unit amounts above are the same for all micro generators where the theoretical max output is less than 4KW

Of course the above takes no account of my reduced energy consumption which I'm not prepared to quote till I've been running for a full year at least - but it looks signficant.

My system is quite a low output one (although I'm thinking of increasing the number of panels as it seems to be so financially attractive.)

Regards, Colin

[Skipweasel]

We're getting coal-mining here near The Wrekin. Can't say it bothers me

- this has been a heavy industrial area for hundreds of years on and off. A spot of open-cast mining which will have been and gone in a decade won't make a lot of difference. Give it a hundred years and it'll be all overgrown again with a thriving (if not identical) ecosystem.

[Dave Liquorice]

Yes there is some faffing about due to the RPI being taken on the

31st Dec but not applied until April the next year but that doesn't help with the statement on the government approved advice site that:

"1. Generation tariff - a set rate paid by the energy supplier for each unit (or kWh) of electricity you generate. This rate will change each year for new entrants to the scheme (except for the first 2 years), but once you join you will continue on the same tariff for 20 years, or 25 years in the case of solar electricity (PV)."

that last sentance.

[Huge]

And you may well get a nice lake out of it.

After all, the greenies don't bitch about the Norfolk Broads, even though they're *entirely* man-made.

[The Other Mike]

From the link:

"All generation and export tariffs will be linked to the Retail Price Index (RPI) which ensures that each year they follow the rate of inflation."

"Page 23" (page 24 in pdf)

"Any eligible installation that is installed would be allocated a generation tariff according to the table of tariffs on page 47. This is the generation tariff that would apply to generation from that installation for the life of the tariff, subject to alterations as a result of indexation."

"Page 47" (page 48 in pdf)

"Table of generation tariffs to 2020"

"Tariff level for new installations in period (p/kWh) [NB tariffs will be inflated annually]"

I'm on exactly the same (non feed in) conventional energy tariff i was on some three years ago but the price I pay for energy isn't the same now as it was then.