Just come back from Tenerife and it looks like Solar Panels are being encouraged with a 30% government grant over there.Fair dues,but are they a prospect in our climate? Has anyone got any unbiased opinions regarding installing Solar Panels in UK ?
Are you talking solar pv or solar thermal? Solar pv is the most hyped dead duck around today, while solar thermal _can_ be made to pay, but normally doesnt due to inadequate design skill.
NT
Yep, well designed using a solar thermal store and simple control system to prioritise solar gained water, and some DIY will make the whole thing cost effective.
Solar-PV can also be made to pay - but probably not in the UK, unless getting mains electricity or gas would cost tens of thousands.
In sunnier places, possibly.
On 3 Mar 2006 15:31:26 -0800 someone who may be "michaelangelo7" wrote this:-
They are more than a prospect. Whether you are talking about hot water or electricity generating panels they are already fitted to some houses. One of the companies offering such things is
Unbiased? Unlikely, we are all biased in many ways.
Views? Use a search engine on this newsgroup and uk.environment and you will get a whole range of views.
Could someone explain what solar PV means and what solar .thermal means. For what its worth I saw a solar panel mounted on the roof of a University in Edinburgh heating a water tank and it was demonstrated to me that even on a cloudy day the water was warm to feel due to radiation. Blair
PV is photo-voltaic: the panel generates electricity. Solar thermal is a panel that produces heat.
If you read it all it's special pleading par excellence. Their average system costs £3,000 but 90% of people buy because they are getting a £400 grant, reducing the cost to £2600. Given recent increases in energy prices if it was worth doing for £2600 last year it's more than worth £3000 now but ...
From their website "We estimate that for mains gas (not more expensive bottled gas) you are unlikely to exceed £60 on fuel savings and perhaps save another £10 or so per annum on boiler life extension. For electricity (peak rate) the savings can be well over £100 P.A"
It may give you a good feeling but the economics don't stand up.
I live in central Scotland and I'm beginning to see a lot of solar panels on domestic roofs. Living here, I see months of grey skies or long periods of brilliant blue winter skies, perhaps depending on how I'm feeling. Can all these local fitters of solar panels be mistaken or misinformed. Trouble is, there are no views that are more entrenched than those of vested interest or pseudo-expertise. Only wish I could get invited into the comforting embrace of either group. :-)
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:43:10 GMT someone who may be Tony Bryer wrote this:-
Are you trying to personalise the discussion for some reason? Does it matter whether I get a good feeling or not?
In terms of simple payback solar water heating is certainly not the best way to invest money. The payback period is at best long. However, simple payback is not the only way of looking at things and even if just considering money there are rather more sophisticated ways of evaluating things. In addition to money there are other ways of looking at an investment, such as reduction in carbon dioxide emissions. Some people wish to do their bit, not just personally but to encourage the industry. That is also why some people will do things like use sustainable electricity or recycle things.
There are also other factors to consider. A well designed system will mean that a boiler does not need to be run for 4-6 months a year just to provide domestic hot water. This has advantages, including prolonging the life of the boiler.
The 'you' was generic not personal.
Well yes. So the government should spend its money (our money)in ways that maximise the CO2 reduction per £ spent. Given that for the most part we are talking gas (either burned directly or in power stations) cost saved is a pretty good proxy for CO2 reduction.
my biased opinion is that at this moment in time the commercial made/fitted versions are still not economically viable in England. However I have a Heath Robinson diy job on my roof Today clear sky and some sunshine; outside temp was 5c, water from the mains was 7c, water from the solar panels 18c Not a huge gain but still worth while, summer time temp can be anything upto 60c +. Ive also got eight 6ft panel's that heat the swimming pool in the summer, in July 2004 the temp reached >40c and people were complaining it was too Hot !
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yes, obviously. We spend our lives in ignorance in most areas, it would take numerous lifetimes to learn everything in the world. And many make no attempt to learn any of it.
NT
So, if this is the case, those agencies paying out grants to encourage this alternative energy use are equally ignorant and deluded?
Thanks Mark, that's what I always thought.Recken I could build my own panelst too. Could you post a few pointers please on basic requirements,or tell me where to get info.
On 4 Mar 2006 23:50:59 -0800 someone who may be "michaelangelo7" wrote this:-
You could start by looking at the thread entitled, "Solar water heating", that is running in this group at the moment. In there you will find a recommendation to visit
Are you going to tell us that political decisions cant be wrong? That would be ignorant and deluded.
A look at the basic relevant concepts quickly shows that offering grants for solar PV or HW is an unsuccessful practice in terms of either money or energy saving.
It does however get votes and win popular approval, from the large numbers of folk that dont know much about it.
For which of those reasons are the grants made? I couldnt tell you, but since the cost/energy equation is fairly clear to anyone famiilar with the skills to asess such, each of us can draw our own conclusions as to where the politicians are at.
What I always find so puzzling is depsite the fairly obvious fact that none of us are expert in any more than a few areas in life, and most in none, people find it so hard to admit ignorance! Either in themselves, those they put on pedestals, or even the general public.
For most subject areas, an expert can spend their whole life studying the field and still not know it all. And there are masses and masses of such subject areas. The result of this is not hard to work out.
NT
Considering events over the last few years it seems clear to me that political decisions can't be wrong, whether I believe so or not. In fact I've never witnessed and rarely read of such a consistent level of infallibility. Perfection like this can only have a divinely inspired source. Flack jackets and tin hats all round eh?
That depends on whether you believe in reincarnation, with the ability to carry over the balance.
On 5 Mar 2006 07:48:31 -0800 someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@care2.com wrote this:-
In terms of money saving, hot water will be a relatively long term investment and electricity a very long term investment. Both at current prices.
In terms of energy saving, it will be a much better investment especially hot water. Of course some claim that the energy used in construction and installation is never recovered. Much the same claims are made about wind farms, but these claims are false too.
The same is also true of carbon dioxide savings.
The same stuff seems to get rehashed every time this comes up. I cba to rewrite it.
NT
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