Soil stack query

All the major bits have now arrived for the bathroom refurb, so starting to think about the plan of attack for the vent/soil stack ...

This house only has one bathroom/loo, so need to keep the out-of-order time down to a minimum, hence try to plan what parts I need, will probably have a few random useful standby bits on sale-or-return from SF/TS to avoid having to dash out for them if required :-)

A quick overview of the current setup

or, if you prefer the branch is of course 87.5° swept, rather than the lazy 90° shown in my diagram.

Blue vent stack coming down from roof into yellow boss, with cyan connection from basin ... yellow boss goes down into magenta branch/boss with green connection from WC and red connection from bath ... magenta branch goes downstairs into blue soil stack.

The red 40mm connection from bath is solvented into the branch/boss, this was copper trap/tube until I recently noticed it was leaking, so new trap and temporary flexible plastic fitted.

The cyan 32mm connection from basin is still copper push fit into a rubber adapter.

Some photos, excuse 40+ years of crud (no actual shit, honest!)

I'm not over-familiar with soil pipe fittings, but it looks like the vent into the top of the boss is push fit? Is that some sort of locking ring? The boss and WC into the branch are also push fit? And the bottom of the branch is solvented to the top of the soil stack? Seem about right?

The magenta/blue junction is actually below floor level which might make life awkward, For my new layout I need the directions of bath and WC connections reversing, thinking of one of these "floor level" manifolds for the basin and bath

with a normal branch feeding the WC into the top of the manifold, and the vent stack continuing upwards (perhaps reduced from 110mm to 83mm to fit better inside some boxing in, IIRC that's the smallest permitted size?)

Everything seems very "solid" at the moment, can't rotate any of what I think are the push-fit joints, is that just 40 years of stiction, or might they not be push-fit? Any tips for separating it?

The markings on the branch actually say 4" any chance this is imperial and will need some form of adapter to 110mm? the pipe is embossed BS4514

4/100, original manufacturer is OSMA, one part number visible is S116, which seems to be a "snap cap" for the sealing rings, are these likely to come off and free-up things nicely, or disintegrate as soon as I touch them?
Reply to
Andy Burns
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The top 110 is push fit - the collar is about 15mm thick to contain the rubber seal.

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That's solvent weld at the bottom end of the 110 - the socket collar is

2-3mm thick - ie pipe wall thickness.

Did I get the right 2 pics?

The rubber seals have probably got stuck. Twisting and rocking ought to do it.

But I think you would do well to put new rubbers in and liberally smear with silicone plumbing grease (not vaseline just in case it attacks the rubber). I *think* you can get replacement seals for push pit 110 couplings but I admit I've not had the need to.

I would certainly replace the boss rubber bushes - even B&Q sell those.

That I cannot help with.

Reply to
Tim Watts

Oh - but for a general approach:

Can you borrow a camping bog off someone for a couple of days. Takes the pressure off a bit.

When working on crap pipes I like to flush liberal amounts of acid and bleach (NOT at the same time!!! - unless you want to be gassed to death with chlorine) down the bog and all waste pipes - take off the deposits, mineral crud, fatty crud and general shit as much as possible from the inside of the pipes and joints.

Give the outside a good wash down with strong bleach and detergent.

Apart from making the job a good deal less unpleasant, it reduces the risk of getting hard crud in a remade joint buggering the seal - marking is easier and you don't feel like you've contaminated your tools.

Reply to
Tim Watts

Just use soapy water. If you use silicone grease, the joint will slide all over the place for ages which you don't want - you just want it to slide easily for assembly, and then grip when the soap gets washed away.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

Thanks, thought so.

OK, so as expected I will have to hack the branch off anyway, no chance of just spinning it round, besides I'd then have to fit a bung to the already used boss, so replacing with either a manifold, or possibly one of those 5 boss/branches but that would push connections even lower into the space between floor and ceiling and be very awkward to get at.

Will buy some silicone oil/grease whatever and see if that helps, may try to prise the snap ring off, to see if it snaps!

Amazing the OSMA part numbers still seem to be the same after 40 odd years.

I've got spares of those kicking around, but they wouldn't be needed with a manifold.

Any comments or relevant "Part X" document to check that? I get the feeling even 50mm vent may be permitted, which would help save even more boxing-in space, they sell a 110/50 reducer as well as the 110/82 reducer, and 50mm roof cowls, so that implies it may be permitted at least in some cases, don't want to use an AAV and remove the vent.

Reply to
Andy Burns

Oh yeah - I was going to comment on that.

83mm is permitted as a vent pipe. I found it in Part-mumble. The one about drains... I cannot give you an easy refernece but I checked about 6 years ago and proved it - and implemented it on an outside vent stack at the head of my drains.
Reply to
Tim Watts

I normally use silicone oil (for drain pipe pushfit) - that seems to dry off in short order.

I suggested grease as I was concerned that old pipe may have defects and minor surface damage that would prevent a perfect seal. But I'm happy to be shouted down on that - it was only a theory...

Reply to
Tim Watts

"Polypipe Grey 110mm x 82mm Soil Reducer. Designed specifically to fit with other Polypipe Soil and Vent Products. Compatibility with other brand products cannot be guaranteed."

Standards versus FUD ...

Reply to
Andy Burns

Try Floplast - pretty sure it was theirs I used.... And their stuff seems to inter-fit with everyone elses IME.

Reply to
Tim Watts

Yes, that's what SF seem to sell, I did seek out OSMA as that's what's already there, but their soil manifold costs £45 to £70, the equivalent Floplast is £17 - it's bulkier, but I think I have the room and I can return it easily to SF, rather than have to go and get sneered-at or ripped-off in a plumbers' merchants.

In reality I'd expect them all to mate with each other, just means Polypipe won't be on the list.

Reply to
Andy Burns

Which is pretty bloody stupid of PP.

The correct way to announce this is to publish a compatibility table.

After all, they only have to go and buy a few dozen fittings and try them. Weak, very weak...

Reply to
Tim Watts

After measuring properly, I realised that even using an offset 110->82mm reducer the vent pipe wouldn't get close enough into the corner to fit the boxing-in, but a 110mm pipe reasonably tight into the corner would fit, don't think I've got the room for two adjustable bends to make the "kink", but looks like I can do it with this ...

Reply to
Andy Burns

You can't find an offset reducer?

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would be better if you could get the offset you need out of it.

I try to avoid flexi in drainage if possible (even in the "dry" bits).

Reply to
Tim Watts

I can find them (as opposed to concentric reducers) but I hadn't realised how far from the corner the pipe is (due to joist running parallel to one wall) so I need to shunt it over by almost 100mm.

I'd only noticed the 0-30° adjustable ones with a single collar, not those double collar ones, I'll probably buy one to try, but I think doing it that way is likely to consume more height than I have, thanks though.

I'm trying to avoid moving the vent exit through rooftile, I think it's a lead collar and if I start moving it it'll likely need replacing. An alternative could be to step it up the roof by one tile, using a pair of

135° offset bends within the boxing in, but then I think the waste stack will start to interfere with the plumbing to the shower.

I would certainly avoid in the discharge sections, it's a last resort, but I think I may end up using the flexi (just bought them, they're decent thickness rubbery plastic, 25 year warranty FWIW) ... got my mind set on nice flush walls without any *obvious* boxing in, instead it'll have a false wall the width of the room, into which the vent stack, shower valve, cistern, soil branch from the WC, and H&C plumbing drops from loft can all be "lost".

Reply to
Andy Burns

SF and TS and even B&Q will accept returns if you keep it clean.

Always awkward when stuff ends up on top of other stuff.

Reply to
Tim Watts

I use silicone for gutter joints, where you do want them to be able to slide after fitting.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

I bought the manifold tonight

It was poly bagged, and pre-lubed with silicone oil, stuff seems to get everywhere ...

Reply to
Andy Burns

I did, but no good, I thought you might be able to wangle the two collars into a dogleg like you can with two 135° obtuse bends, but the only combination where the input and output are both vertical, is 0°.

Well, fitting a new weathering slate, collar and terminal a tile higher up the roof is actually starting to look favourite, all other options are *more* pissing about ... it should be reachable from the ladder with stand-off. If necessary, threading two 15mm shower pipes around an

82mm vent pipe ought to be easier than threading a 110m vent pipe around two 15mm shower pipes ...
Reply to
Andy Burns

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