Socket Nightmare

[bob.smithson]

I loosened a socket while decorating at my in-laws new place and in doing so noticed that four cables were connected there - the two ring cables and two spurs. Furthermore, I noticed that one of the earths from the ring had come out of the socket connector. I tried to get it back in but, in doing so, at least one other wire - a live or neutral

- came out of its connector!

I know from experience that three cables into one socket is a bit of a job and in this case it is made worse by the fact that there isn't a lot of spare length in the cables. Another thing I noticed was that there was no socket to back box earth connection - so in fact I'd need to get 5 earth wires in the socket to fix this! So anyway, I realised that I wasn't going to be able to fix this in a hurry and I'm not sure I would be happy with the existing arrangement even if I got a pro in to reconnect the socket. So as a stop-gap, I removed the socket, connected up the wires with choc blocks and put a blank on.

So I'm wondering what to do now without causing too much disruption. (It's probably worth mentioning that it's a concrete floor which probably accounts for how it ended up like this.) Given that the socket is in a fairly hidden position (behind the TV) so aesthetics aren't too important, I was thinking of doing the following: Effectively, use the existing back box as a junction box, connecting the wires appropriately using choc blocks (and keeping the blank plate on), and then sink another box alongside it for the socket. The spurs would be connected up in the 'junction box' and there would be two short cables into the new socket which would be the ring cables.

How does this sound? The advantage as I see it would be that the connections could be worked on individually and with confidence that they are tight and they would remain accessible via the blank socket.

Thanks,

Bob

[Lobster]

Have you worked out where either or both of the spurs goes? Would it be feasible to permanently disconnect either or both?

David

[John Rumm]

A simple solution would be to get one of these:

have big square stirrup terminals (of the type found on top of a circuit breaker) rather than more typical round hole with a screw types. They also have two earth terminals.

So there will be plenty of space to get all your wires in, and a back box connection can be done from the other earth terminal if it makes life easier.

Note that although it is common practice to have a dedicated earth to the back box, there is no actual requirement to have it if one of the lugs on the back box is fixed rather than sliding.

If the wires are still too short to make a safe and secure connection, then crimp a short extension on them:

(No need for outer sleeving in this circumstance).

[Jim Alexander]

Been there and what you have done/are proposing is better than what you found so I won't crticise it electrically.

My main comment is that you still end up with a blanking plate (and a new socket). Personally I would just run a multiblock from the nearest socket assuming there is one that doesn't involve crossing a doorway.

Alternatively persevere with the terminal blocks and look for a less intrusive socket that leaves more room behind. Failing that fit a surface patress box on top of the sunken box. OK, you'll have a sticky out box (behind the TV) but no blanking plate and no extra work.

Jim A

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It is usually possible to get four 2.5mm cables into a standard socket - although it's against regs. As regards the earths, most new sockets have two earth terminals obviously linked together and situated at either end which would make that side rather easier.

[Newshound]

Useful link. I have a ratchet crimper but it is the type with an indenter on one side and a cup on the other so that the "socket" is squashed into a C shape. The one in the FAQ looks a bit different. Is mine still OK for mains? (it mostly gets used on the cars).

[bob.smithson]

That was the other plan I considered. It wasn't too obvious to me how to fix the surface patress though. I guess I could bolt the patress onto the back box lugs but I wasn't sure how solid it would be.

The advantage is that it would be less work.

-- Bob

[bob.smithson]

It probably is possible but I don't think I would ever trust it - even if I got someone in to do it.

-- Bob

[bob.smithson]

Unfortunately not - they provide a socket and the lighting (via a FCU) for an adjacent conservatory.

-- Bob

[Lurch]

On Thu, 24 May 2007 18:24:08 +0100, "Newshound" mused:

As long it's a proper crimping tool for insulated terminals then it's fine. I have one like in the link and one that is shaped as you describe (I think) and both work fine.

[Lurch]

On Thu, 24 May 2007 18:16:51 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)" mused:

Is it?

[Lurch]

On 24 May 2007 09:37:46 -0700, [e-mail] mused:

Still incorrect really. You should have one spur from any point so you could do that and spur one from the joints and one from the new socket.

Assuming they are on a ring and not on a radial then I'd stick a new socket at the side of the existing one and spur one of the spurs from each socket and run the ring through both. Each socket has only 3 cables then and complies with regulations. As you're decorating a bit of making good might be required to alter the cable routes etc...

[The Natural Philosopher]

In such cases I have usually managed to use choc blocks inside the socket casing to spur off to the actual socket.

[John Rumm]

That sounds like the type usually used for uninsulated terminals. You can use these on mains, but you would need a smaller heatshrink to insulate the individual wires as well as the large one for the overall sheath.

[Lurch]

On Thu, 24 May 2007 22:18:01 +0100, John Rumm mused:

Hmm, it does doesn't it. I couldn't visualise what was being described before, I can now and it does sound like a crimper for uninsulated terminals so ignore the bits in my other reply about being otherwise.

[John Rumm]

prolly this sort of thing:

[David Hansen]

On 24 May 2007 09:37:46 -0700 someone who may be [e-mail] wrote this:-

Now is a good time to add some extra sockets, which are always useful near a television. Six is a good number to plan with, perhaps more.

This gives plenty of opportunity to re-route cables to get a little length and less congestion in the box.

[dmc]

What about something like

how these things fit but I assume a couple of screws into the patress in the wall and a couple of screws into the wall should be possible.

Sell it to them on how your solution is 1.5 times better than the old one :)

Darren

[Newshound]

sort on sleeved terminals inside cabinets. Have now ordered one of the other sort.....you can never have too many tools.

[Lurch]

On Fri, 25 May 2007 08:41:59 +0100, David Hansen mused:

6 double sockets! By the time we'd added the data\telecom\DVB-T\S etc... we'd have a yard of sockets not only behind the TV but coming half way across the fireplace.