So who's paying for this bit of ecobollox ... ?

"Sorry, I forgot the road had a corner here"

Lapse of memory is no excuse at all. There are big circles with numbers in them, with red borders. If you're driving with any degree of attention whatsoever, you'll notice them.

If you claim it's a lapse of memory which caused you to not see a speeed limit, then that's good grounds for a charge of driving without due care and attention.

Reply to
Clive George
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Oh, I do understand *exactly* what you're saying. I don't agree you're right though.

Reply to
Clive George

Rubbish

Coke was initially developed to cast iron making - cf Abraham Darby and the BLAST furnace. Note that its COKE that needs the blast furnace, not coal.

Coke is used in iron smelting because it is relatively pure carbon And general silcates that form ash): As such, it is much harder to burn than coal, which contains lots of other more easily burnable hydrocarbons.

Coke was made from coal in a similar way to charcoal from wood. In fact since coal is essentially fossilised wood, the same principles ought to apply. heated coal in the absence of oxygen gives off hydrogen and carbon monoxide and leaves mainly pure carbon. That's the coking process.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Then Darwinism is alive and working on the roads today (unfortunately for the innocent victims etc).

This seems relevant (WS) 2:15 onwards:

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T i m

Reply to
T i m

Yes, that's what I suspected - and particularly as his early efforts seemed attached to the coal mining industry, it would seem like a good possibility for use as the fuel source. I'm sure the engines weren't particularly good due to the boiler design - I was just surprised that the later Rocket was perhaps claimed to be the first coal-fired loco.

I think Stephenson largely brought several existing inventions together in one package, rather than providing much innovation of his own. But then carving a spot in history often does seem to be more of a PR exercise than anything...

Reply to
Jules

You aren't actually driving the road by memory, you are prioritising the important stuff, like what that kid on a bike is about to do not if the number on a stick is the same as it was yesterday.

Have you never been though a set of lights and suddenly had the thought that you didn't consciously 'notice' the state of the lights (but a glance in the mirror suggests they must have been green)?

Possibly (by your rules) but not relevant in the real (driving safety) world.

Speed limits and then cameras are primarily there to manage > trap those who can't make decisions on their own (and in that process also trap those spending more time actually driving attentively and not staring at their speedo or circles on sticks). I'm not saying most of us can't do both of course but speed and safe driving can be two different things.

ie, They have speed limits in the pits on race tracks but not on the track yet not everyone dies?

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

Efficient burning of either needs a forced draught, which you can gain from a moderate chimney.

Clean burning of coal, without a pall of black smoke, requires more chimney height than is practical on a moving vehicle. Even back to Queen Elizabeth's reign, there were laws against burning coal without suitable smoke-preventative measures. As coke was widely known by now for metallurgy, and any steam locomotive in this period was at the leading edge of engineering, coke was an obvious solution.

The solution to burning coal on locomotives was to use the blastpipe to increase the draught. This post-dates Trevithick, and was probably invented by Hackworth. Coal may have been used by Hackworth at Wylam, or at the Middleton railway (these locomotives were probably capable of doing so, with excessive smoke) but the real shift from coke to coal as a practical locomotive fuel is well documented through experiments by Stephensons.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

And your point is?

By Trevithick's day, coke had a hundred years of use in ironfounding. It was easily available to the early locomotive builders, and they chose to use it.

BTW - It wasn't developed for cast iron making either, but for use in the blast furnace, the smelter for converting iron ore to pig iron. This iron was later re-heated and manufactured as wrought iron (hammered whilst hot and pasty rather than melted and poured). Cast iron came a little later, as it required a less viscous melt if it was to be pourable into moulds.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

Precisely so.

Doesn't do much to endear one to the autorities.

Wholly agree.

And then those that will drive at the limit in unsuitable conditions because they think that it must be safe!

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Reply to
Clot

Exactly the same as a hardworking married couple with 5 children.

The truth is there are far more single parents in this world that are only in their predicament through no fault of their own than there are single parents who deliberately set out to be like this.

Reply to
Mark

I can't agree. Driving according to the road conditions and anticipating what hazards may lie ahead is far more important than watching out for technical breach of the law.

Reply to
Clot

Agreed.

Reply to
Clot

Trevithick was one of the few who _wasn't_ attached to coal mining. His "Newcastle" locomotive, for the Wylam colliery, was something like his sixth engine (we don't know how many stationary engine he built beforehand). Before that he'd come from Cornwall via Wales, with detours through road transport and exhibitions. The industries he was more closely associated with were metal ore mining in Cornwall and iron-founding in Wales.

As Cornwall had no coal available and little wood at most of the mine locations the large number of stationary pumping engines there were dependent on imported fuel at greater cost. This encourages a more careful approach to efficiency and innovation than in the coalfields of Dudley or Tyneside. Many innovations, like Woolf's compounding, and the whole Cornish engine approach itself (slow, huge, but surprisingly efficient, right into the 20th century) were driven by the price of fuel in Cornwall.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

Reply to
Clot

The point I was making elsewhere in the thread.

Reply to
Clot

Anyone driving should be able to do both. Failure to do so is either a lack of ability or a disregard for others.

Reply to
Mark

If you're overloaded by that information (kid on bike, number on sign), you either need to take steps to reduce that load or increase the amount of information you can take on. The latter means concentrating on driving, not going on autopilot. There is another alternative, which is to slow down to a level where you can cope with the amount of information coming in, but that's clearly a ridiculous idea.

And I bet there wasn't a kid on a bike at the point where Clot had his memory lapse...

Occasionally. And I take that as a reminder that I wasn't concentrating adequately, and any fuckup which would have resulted from that would have been my fault. I try to learn from my mistakes.

Yes, 100% relevant in the real world. The point isn't that the number on the stick may be different to what's safe, the point is that you should be driving such that you know what the number on the stick is and what your speed is without compromising your safety. Do you see the difference?

Reply to
Clive George

There's nothing stopping you from doing both. It's not even especially hard.

Remember, road conditions includes the law in place, and anticipating hazards includes anticipating speed limits.

For example, if you're driving along behind somebody and you come to a lower speed limit, seeing the sign lets you know that driver might decide to suddenly slow down to that limit.

Reply to
Clive George

Because.

Which has little relation to any _additional_ causes we kick into play. One doesn't preclude the other.

One might also suggest that the absence of "little ice ages", frost fairs etc. since we started messing with stuff would tend to support the anthropocene hypothesis, rather than discredit it.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

Indeed. round here there are regular accidents on un limited minor roads where people come around at 60 mph, or even at the posted 40mph on some limited streches and find a combine harvester, a stopped car, or a horsebox, or a deer..in the middle of the road.

At this time of year, wet leaves are a literal killer, to.

There's far too much emphasis on driving to the Law, and far too little on driving to the conditions IMO.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

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