I was having a chat with one of our local BCOs the other day, and we were talking about part P. Out of curiosity I asked him how often they received a building notice for a part P only job - i.e. just one doing electrics rather than some other job that also included electrics. He thought for a moment, and admitted that he could not actually remember any!
While I suppose that concurred with expectations, I was still a bit surprised that that the figure really was zero.
So to repeat the question here; has anyone, (or do you know anyone) who
*has* submitted a BN for part P work when not required by other aspects of the building regs?
No, but see see my post in the thread "How to get Part P for electrics". With my local authority at any rate if you're DIY-ing the electrics the BN fee is potentially *cheaper* if you combine it with something else.
John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:
Not answering your question exactly as put John, I did. But primarily because I had a BNA open for a ton of other stuff. And it was a full rewire. And the LABC in question don't appear to be being very[1] awkward about it.
[1] Well, they wanted evidence of qualifications or a PIR, so I did a 4 day course and got a VRQ. Technically I gave ground, but they were being generally helpful in other areas (ie don't give a toss about Part L and other such nonsense). I think they just want a bit of botty insulation in case the s**te hits the fan, otherwise I don't think they really give a damn about Part P either. I like them.
I don't envisage darkening their doors again, ever, after this.
Correct me if I'm wrong, and I accept that I may be, but as I understand it I 'could' legally rewire the entire local village hall (non domestic) and be paid, but can't add a spur to my own kitchen ring because that comes under Part P!
(obviously you could do your kitchen legally under a building notice, but that quite likely puts the cost of spur up by a couple of hundred quid... can't think why the idea is so unpopular ;-) )
But the definition of 'competent' is the more traditional one, as opposed to the Prat P definition which is essentially 'having paid to be a member of the cartel'
I did. They sent round TWO wallies at first fit who didn't know one end of a fuse from the other. 'Nice tidy wiring' they exclaimed. I asked if I had interpreted the 50mm rule correctly in the stud wall (I had, it was a test question), and they admitted that neither was qualified to inspect electrics, and didn't know what the 50mm rule was. I have not requested the final inspection, and every six months or so I get a letter requesting my 'certificate'. I decline to answer as there is no time limit in the regulations. I'll submit a bloody certificate when I feel like it.
Having been involved in a training organisation that delivered the EAL Domestic Installer course over 8 days, I am fascinated how the theory and practical parts, together with completion of portfolio was completed in 4 days. Do you feel you or the other candidates came away with sufficient knowledge to carry out domestic installation work satisfactorily and safely including the appropriate basic testing and certification?
I can only speak for myself. Yes. However I was pretty conversant with the theory and was already experienced with using the most of the test gear beforehand. The course is really to tick the boxes for people who are experienced but unqualified with domestic electrical work and certify them as competent. Most experienced diyers would have little problem with the course if they were reasonable numerate.
Many on the course were already working as electricians and knew what they were doing - it seemed they just needed this qualification to join the NICEIC DI programme - none of them had ant problems.
I was the odd one out doing it to keep the BCO happy, but I earnt the respect of the others for my neat cabling and awkward questions ;->
However, if you are without any electrical nous and find CSE maths and physics challenging you'd be a bit stuffed and it would not turn the clueless into a competent electrician IMO. But like Ed says, if you generally know what you're doing, such a course does help finish off the details withing its scope.
The only thing I have against it is that a 4 day course cannot possibly cover much of the extended theory and practise that is quite likely to come up in domestic work, eg:
Running submains (distribution circuits) When to start using TT earthing (eg greenhouse, maybe) Grouping of cables Cable types that aren't T+E What to do when you see some random 1950s black box on the wall next to the meter and have no idea what it's for.
But, OTOH, it does cover cable derating for temperature, the basic concepts of predicting a load on a circuit and standard circuit arrangements.
I think the course is definately OK for kitchen/bathroom fitters and people doing odd jobs with limited scope, but, personally, if you're going to start up wiring entire houses with all of the odd cases that you may find, I don't think it goes all the way and you'd really want to do a stint assisting a more experienced electrician for a while.
I can see why pro sparks get so upset with the whole thing.
Hi Ed, I can agree with the concept of ticking bixes for the already experienced but the EAL course is sold to such as (amongst others) military service leavers to hopefully provide them with skills for civvy street. Some of the military trades had no trouble at all but many of the infantry and similar had no previous knowledge on which to build. As one man said "I've spent 20 years with the intended job of shooting and stabbing the enemy. Working with electricity is all new". Having said that he applied himself diligently and came through the course with a decent assessment. He still needed a couple of years working for someone to gain the required experience to be considered competent in my book.
The fundamental problem to the training route for these guys is that the services fund the training and actively encourage candidates to go into an intensive few weeks at the training providers establishment. A "normal" sequence being
5 days basic electrical theory (very basic - volts, amps, ohms, electromagnets, generation, conductors, insulators, simple circuits etc).
8 days Domestic Installer Level 2 VRQ (Based on the On Site Guide) The course also includes a 20 question multi-choice on-line test of Bulding regs and part P based on the Electricians Guide to the Building Regulations
2 days level 3 PAT (1 day management of, 1 day technician PAT)
4 days 17th edition Wiring Regulations plus 1 day for revision and on- line exam
C&G 2391 level 3 Verification, inspection and testing of electrical installations, 4 days theory plus 1 day practical assessment - Not advised to non experienced electricians but many opt to take the course anyway and initially fail the assessment. A written (proper) closed book exam is also required to obtain this qualification.
It is worth noting that the 2391 has a low pass rate nationally so there must be a lot of electricians out there who do not have a sufficiently in-depth knowledge of their trade to carry out a proper inspection and test of a full electrical installation. Thats a bit scary but the Domestic Installer course at least gives sufficient knowledge to adequately test new domestic wiring on completion.
When I did my 16th Edition, it was mostly the pro sparks who were really struggling with it. They accounted for probably nearly half the students. The alarm, heating, and telecoms installers, and DIYers, had no trouble at all.
When it came to C&G PAT testing, this was even more the case. Prerequesit for this is just being able to with a plug and knowing the difference between milliohms and megohms -- it was that last bit which the pro sparks mostly failed on. It's particularly funny to see office workers passing this whilst electricians fail.
In both cases, the course tutors said this is normal.
I suppose there is a case for weeding out the clueless would be electricians before they got as far as making a futile attempt to learn.
BTW did you see the newspaper article stating that electrician was the commonest job for a BNP member. (SWMBO decribed them as not very bright sparks).
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.