So if I swtich on a 2kw heater then how does that indicate the current change in the backligh of a TV ?
It's virtually impossible.
No they wouldn't, something switching off is switching off.
It wouldn't be possible to seprate the backlight current from almost anything else in the house.
Its a bit more difficult than that..
different TVs take different times to decode the signal to put on the display.
different TVs have different response times for the backlight.
TVs have different current draws depending on the sound system attached.
some of us press pause when the program comes on and go and do something else and then skip through the ads.
So in practice its going to be quite hard to tell what TV programs you are watching even if the smart meter could collect the data and send it somewhere to be analysed which is going to be difficult as they use SMS messaging and not the internet and the GSM control channel would be swamped very quickly if a few meters started sending SMS every second.
The backlight current doesn't change anywhere near the amount you think it does.
My computer is far faster than my TV screen.
400 FPS on my TV is faster then 60HZ.Rubbish.
Irrelivant.
they are all step changes so are the 7-segment displays on my clock and washing machine.
No where near enough to be measurable by a smart meter.
but you can't that's the point.
In message , at
12:46:07 >That's trivially taken account of when matching up the patterns.
That will only affect the amplitude of the peaks/troughs, not their size.
Although all that means is we are looking for a consumption change caused by sound and backlight - although for most TVs the latter will be an order of magnitude more.
In which case the process fails (at this level of processing sophistication anyway). It's claimed to be a 100% solution.
The data can be batched up and sent later, but how long will smart meters be using 20th Century comms when they are sat in the same under the stairs cupboard as the ADSL router?
In message , at
05:50:10 on Mon, 16 Mar 2015, whisky-dave remarked:This is turning into a "panto" thread. Oh yes it is - oh no it isn't.
In message , at 14:01:28 on Mon, 16 Mar 2015, Roland Perry remarked:
not
For as long as the suppliers want to keep them off the internet for security reasons which is going to be a long time. Its why all the claims about hacking smart meters over the internet are cr@p. You would have to hack the control system not the meter.
In message , at
16:17:02 on Mon, 16 Mar 2015, "Dennis@home" remarked:There's noting insecure about connecting something to the Internet if its' done competently. Which is much easier for a closed system such as that.
You're assuming that the house has wired broadband. many don't.As I have said before, the response time of a meter is very slow, so you don't have the data to start with. The meter is read only intermittently due to bandwidth limitations. When you actually look at the propagation characteristics of an electricity network, you will find even more noise characteristics which will defeat you. When you can demonstrate that you have done this TV channel trick, I'll believe it, until then, I'll rely on my design experience of electric networks, smart meters and DSP hardware and say, "in your dreams".
ROFLMAO
You can't do that when the total house power use is only measured every 4 seconds.
You ten see if what remains
Just not feasible with 100 or more broadcast channels and a
4 second sample time of the total house power consumption.
Its obvious that that heater has been turned on from the change in the current.
Very easy actually with something like say the toilet light which has quite different time characteristics and power characteristics than say the bedroom light etc.
They aren't all simple on/off devices.
Wrong on the short term variations in that current alone.
It does actually and that is easy to measure to prove that.
The rate at which the screen content changes isn't.
That isn't the rate at which the screen content changes.
That is how you work out what you are seeing current wise is due to.
And the change in the backlight current with a TV that changes the backlight with the screen content isn't.
The phone never rings for that long compared with the TV.
No it isn't, particularly when you only have 4 second samples of the total house current.
But it does mean that you can't just add every pair of channels broadcast and see which matches the pattern you see on the house current.
True.
At any level of sophistication.
And there are those who check the other channels during ad breaks too.
Presumably you meant "It isn't"
The point is that is how they work, so can't be used to snoop on what you are watching when you have more than one TV used at once or even just one when you are doing that with every smart meter.
Aren't these meters worked over a dedicated radio channel and or system and not the GSM networks?...
In message , at
17:30:37 on Mon, 16 Mar 2015, Capitol remarked:Nothing like a good technical argument, and that's ....
In message , at
17:29:02 on Mon, 16 Mar 2015, Capitol remarked:
Virgin just mailshotted me to say 60% of the people in my street have their braodband [and hence, why don't I]. Assuming they aren't lying through their teeth, then there's the ADSL customer as well.
Care to suggest what timing you mean by "very slow". My very crude clip-on meter sends a new reading every 4 seconds, for example.
Yes, we covered that earlier.
I don't understand what that has to do with measuring the consumption inside my house.
And I'll rely on my own knowledge, including that some people have done it.
In message , at 05:31:00 on Tue, 17 Mar 2015, john james remarked:
We aren't looking for picture brightness altering second by second. More from one shot to another.
You can try every pair until you get one which matches close enough. In practice you are actually eliminating the ones which don't match at all (for example two channels where the picture is simultaneously dark, but the current consumption indicate that at least one is bright).
See below - although add breaks in the UK are only 4 minutes, four times an hour, and there's plenty of programme material in between to use as a comparator. In fact you'd only be trying to do the comparison during the programme segments because different regions of the country have different advertisements.
Yes.
It's not for snooping on everyone at once.
In fact it's not really about snooping on anyone's TV schedule.
I think you've lost sight of the original proposition that "IF (as you can) you can tell what TV programme someone is watching, you can also tell whether they've got other appliances like deep freezes, and hence how much such appliances are taking; and you can tell what time someone gets up in the morning etc).
Think of it like saying "if I can slip a bit of 200gsm card through this gap in the window frame then there's going to be a draught when the wind's blowing", and then everyone pitching in with objections like:
Only if the wind's blowing from that direction Not if the gap still has the bit of card in it I only have 100gm card and putting two of them in the gap isn't the same Who wants to put a bit of card in *everyone's* window anyway
In message , at 04:57:25 on Tue, 17 Mar 2015, john james remarked:
I'd expect to be taking perhaps 100 measurements of the house, and obviously having some central apparatus taking 4-second samples from all the TV channels to compare those with later.
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