Small apartment development

[chad.city]

Hi All,

I really need some pointers on how best to complete the work on a small (approx 60 sq m) shell flat I have just bought.

At the moment it is just an empty space and the electrical wiring / plumbing is capped at the front door to my flat. So I need to get flooring, wiring, plumbing, bathroom and a few small partitition walls put in. First project manager/designer's fees quote was for over 10K which seems _alot_ for what is just effectively a small room! Any advice from others who have been here before much appreciated. Specific questions I have at moment are:

- Guesstimates prices for basic wiring and plumbing?

- What planning or Local Council permissions do I need for this work (it is all internal and building has appropriate certifications) ? Will I legally need to have an architect type person involved?

- Underfloor heating? Seems like a good idea but I definitely do not want to have to pull the floor up if it breaks down. Electric or water based? Flat is on the first floor, I have heard this will only succeed in heating the flat below, true?

- Should the partition walls be put in place before laying the floor or vice-versa? I may need to fix the place up piecemeal as and when I have the money!

Where is a good place to go to get more information about this type of project. I am thinking of sourcing workmen via -

- any opinions?

Thanks alot for any advice,

Chad

[Owain]

You will need Building Regulations approval for almost all the works you cite, including (specifically) internal walls and the arrangement of rooms, drains, wiring (Part P), and heating (Part L).

Without Building Regulations approval you will not legally be able to live in the flat.

No, but you will need to draw up plans in sufficient detail to demonstrate compliance with Building Regulations.

If the floor is not insulated, true to quite a large extent. But a lot of heat will still rise up.

Owain

[meow2222]

First the only way to fix a broken one is to pull the floor up, thats just obivous. Gas heated water is 1/3 the price of electric.

FWIW UFH runs at low temps which suits solar HW heating, but really for a given spend on solar there are other options with far better payback.

And yes you'll get more heat loss, as youre making your floor hot.

either will work

thats a prime case for diying it, because you get 2 cost advantages.

1=2E all you pay for is the parts, so cost is way less 2=2E you can design a nice full system that can run as a minimal system initially, just install just what you need now, with everything ready and in place for a more featured install later.

Eg: install 1 central light per room now, but route the wires past where you'd like to put wall lights in later when youve more dough. eg2: run a cable for the outside lights but leave it disconnected, all the outdoor stuff can be done later. etc.

BTW it only costs =A38 for a reel of cat5, and putting this stuff around the place can be done with no extra effort, and it can be used later for phones, intercom, broadband, burglar alarm, entry phone, and many other apps that you may want in future.

NT

[chad.city]

Is this a difficult/costly process? Where can I get a copy of the Building Regulations?

Cool that's very useful to know, thanks. Bearing in mind that all work I'm taking on is internal (and the external work has alreay been certified) what kind of detail is required on these drawings? Would floor plans with "room" layout. plumbing, power points etc suffice?

Can I not insulate my floor sufficiently to minimise this loss?

Thanks for the info,

Chad

[chad.city]

Hmmm...interesting. I was hoping that I might be able to get by with a smaller boiler.

Totally agree but have no experience (yet!) on the DIY front. Can you suggest any websites, books, magazines...

Do I just get electrician to wire this around perimeter of rooms?

Thanks for the info,

Chad

[zikkimalambo]

You say the external part of the building has certification, what kind of certification does this apartment have?

Is this appartment in England or elsewhere?

I would suggest getting a number of DIY books out of your local library, and or reading here for a couple of years.

[chad.city]

Yes the apartment is in London. The building is approved with some kind of National Homebuyers guarantee (solicitor checked for me) but the actual internal space has no certification.

Anyone brave enough to have a guess at estimates for

- wiring

- plumbing

- putting in a partition wall

Thanks for the suggestions, Chad

[Andrew May]

Where do you get your CAT5 from? CPC has 305m reels for £87 including VAT which has always put me off buying a reel for stock. Have you found somewhere that sells it cheaper or just in small reels?

Andrew

[Dave Plowman (News)]

[Owain]

Fees are set by the Building Control dept of your local council.

The approved documents used to be on the ODPM's website; don't know where they are now.

They need to be more detailed than that. For example, there is IIRC correctly a requirement for accoustic insulation between a toilet and a habitable room, so you would need to draw and specify "wall formed from

100x50mm studs on xx mm centres, cavity filled with xx rockwool, clad with 12mm plasterboard to British Standard XXXX" or "wall formed from stud and plasterboard as per Approved Method X.Y in the Building Regulations"

Unless you are doing all the work yourself, you need this level of specification to enable your builders to quote properly for the work.

If you ask nicely at Building Control office they will probably let you see some plans to get an idea of what is required.

Probably, but if not done as part of the floor construction you will loose headroom (and may get an awkward step at the front door).

Owain

[Andrew May]

Ahh, thanks Dave. 50m rolls look a lot more useful.

[Lobster]

David

[meow2222]

Toolstation is half that price, also check out screwfix.

NT

[meow2222]

uk.d-i-y is good. Just read and get stuck into the threads on your subject areas. Its fair to say it'll take you a while to be able to design an electrical installation though: if you start a thread on each of your requirements a fair bit of the work may get done for you. But it may take you a while to get upto speed, so paying a pro for the tech designs might be an option, then you do the fitting.

No, you dont pay anyone to do anything. Before the mains wiring channels are plastered over you put 2x cat5 or cat5e cables in the channels, or 3x if youve got enough wire to do so. Dont connect it to anything for now, just ensure you can get to the end tails in future. You probably wont do anything with it right away, but it'll save you a fortune and much hassle and be most useful down the line.

NT

[meow2222]

no! You can start by finding out what kind of supplied earth youve got. Then list what loads you want, eg sockets, lights, immersion heater, shower, oven, then we can explain optoins and make some suggestions.

yes. But as well as an overpriced method of heating youve then got further costs adding insulation, trimming doors and so on. UFH is a waste of time for anyone on a tight budget. I dont remember you saying what type of floors you have, wood or concrete.

NT

[meow2222]

NHBC and BR approval are 2 different things. Do you know what youve got?

Lets start with partition wall. You use a 2"x4" rough sawn wood upright every 16" to 24", after fitting a 2x4 strip along the top and another along the bottom. Clad each side with 12mm plasterboard, which comes in

4x8' sheet, using plasterboard screws. Minmum cost method is to then either tape over or plaster fill the joints. Then emulsion paint it all. How much is that? You may also be expected to stuff mineral wool batts in the cavity to dampen sound.

Variations are possible of course.

NT

[chad.city]

Good info, will open a new thread with these details when I get them.

No flooring decision made yet but I think you have made my mind up - I'll put down the cheapest floor possible (linoleum I guess?) and not rush into any decisions about this just yet. If this "glorious" (I would say horribly hot!) weather persists I'll need A/C more than heating anyhow ;-)

cheers, Chad

[Tony Bryer]

[chad.city]

The developers have got the NHBC for their work - which excludes the interior "finishing off" of each apartment. So I suppose that this NHBC is just those parts of the BRs that relate to external work, does that make sense?

With my current diy skills that could equal the cost of my medical bill whe the wall falls on my head! If I were to get a tradesman to do this simple task what am I looking at?

Thanks, Chad

[chad.city]

Ah ha, I will definitely do that. Where is best to have endpoints exposed, floor socket level?

cheers, Chad