Technically, almost any modern plumbing system could have a feature effectively requiring you to inform the water company to decide if you need a meter. No-one bothers.
In any case, the vast majority of people save money on a meter, as the 5-10% of people with hosepipe fixations use such a large proportion of the water.
Christian.
But while many could bring up the courage to install a shower pump, I suspect very few would install their own boiler.
Christian.
You're having a laugh! Almost any pump is better than a combi, especially if you are trying to run baths as well. However, both would be excellent performers for just a shower, so it is immaterial.
I would not encourage the installation of an open flued appliance anywhere, let alone in a bathroom.
Christian.
The Nazi ones swapped hot water for Zyclon B, which I think might be considered somewhat worse than just a low flow rate, especially if your family has first hand experience of them.
Christian.
Not so.
The suggestion was just one shower, not run the baths through it.
Got it.
No it is not. Look at the benefits for about £150 extra outlay. I highlighted them. If the boiler is an old cast iron iron even a regular combi will outperform it in efficiency. And you still get quick bath fill-ups too from the cylinder.
Still legal and millions of them are about. Can't fit one in a bathroom. You can have them in utility rooms and kitchens.
...and would be down right illegal.
A flueless heater would be even more pathetic than electric shower even the
9.5kW one. Also the manufacturer is likely to forbid such a use anyway.
Flueless water heaters can be used for a single point shower. They can't be fitted in bathrooms.
And this is a fine site to watch a lot of pure petty bitichyness.
You can't just give a single figure for flow rate with an electric shower.
Basically, the shower will pass the amount of water that it can heat to the temperature selected, so the temperature of the incoming cold water affects the flow rate.
That's if the "you" is a basically honest person with an elementary grasp of engineering reality. Either quality will strongly tend to disqualify you from writing manufacturer's literature, so you'll see flow rates for various water-heating kit - combis, leccie-showers, and so on - sprayed liberally onto such literature. If challenged, they'll say "oh yes, we assume a temperature rise, everybody does that"; the figure they choose (maybe
25 degrees C) is relevant to warm-rather-than-hot showers taken in summer (water input temp of 15-20 degrees), rather than the less flattering "want a hot shower on a damn cold winter's day".Me, I'm happy enough with an electric instantaneous shower - never felt the need to pretend I'm under a heated Niagra Falls. But it's a matter of taste/preference...
HTH (and apologies to the honest and clueful tech writers out there!) - S
Thanks for all your comments. I guess electric showers are sort of "they are what they are". I have a four bed/two bathroom/six+ person house and the idea was to have a instant hit with a shower regardless of other CH/DWH requirements with hundreds of other bodies floating round the house as normal. It was disappointing. I was nervous of combi as flow rates seemed so poor in houses I've been to with them. Perhaps I'll look closer.
Thanks
snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Graham) wrote
That's pretty much it. Performance is "adequate", if you're not too fussy, and they are extremely convenient.
Yup. We have a 9.8KW shower which is fine in summer but pretty poor in winter, when it would be nice to have plenty of hot flow. It is tank fed, with an integral pump, as our mains supply is inedequate, and consequently gets quite high input temperatures in summer. I have in mind to feed it warm water through a thermostatic valve some day, which would provide a good shower all year, as long as there was hot water available, without precluding a shower if the hot water supply has failed for some reason. OTOH, a gravity mixer might be a better solution... havn't decided yet.
I won't be going for a combi any time soon, I don't think. I don't have mains gas, have a poor mains water supply and expect I would need to replumb most of the house to accomodate it.
I'm sure combis are a good solution to some problems, but I have a hard time seeing them as a panacea for all ills. Perhaps it would be appropriate for some of their more outspoken proponents to balance their proposals?
Cheers, W.
If your mains can't cope then they are not the ideal solution as they are mains fed. And that goes for any mains fed system like Megaflows and thermal stores. Although with poor mains pressure you can run a combi off a tank and pump in the loft and save cylinder space in the tiny house below - sorted. This may be an interim solution until your mains is updated.
They can go up to 22 litres/minute if you want. For "most" households they the best solution in simplicity and importantly, far less space taken up in tiny British homes. Around 550,000 fitted per year says it all. For the majority of British homes combi's are a panacea. They also heat the house up "real fast". They are the ideal choice for DIYers when selecting a fully specced idiot proof job like the Ariston Microgenus. BTW, A Microgenus 2 has just come out with 3 outputs of 24kW, 27kW and a 13+ litres/minute 31or
32kW job .
What do you currently have? Boiler? cylinder? tanks in loft? how many bathrooms? shower? etc?
An instant appliance "raises" the temp of incoming water. So, if they say
5 litres/min at 35C temp rise (35C temp rise is the most common spec), and you want 45 C at the shower, then if the mains 10C you will get 5 litres/min. If the mains is 15C, you will either: reduce power to attain 45C or have a higher flow rate. The reverse applies when the mains temp is below 10C.
The flow rate is a bit of a red herring, as manufacturers can twist it to their own advantage. Far either to just compare the actual powers. 24kW is
2.4 times 10kW and will provide 2.4 times the flow, whatever temperature rise you measure at. (Assuming the water doesn't change state!)Christian.
As long as they give the figures you know where you are. As combi's are becoming the traditional boiler, the government/EU should set a standard of flow rates, then everyone is looking the same way. Holland has a 1 to 4 rating for combi flowrates. This reduces confusion and householders can relate to simple figures, as with AAA in white goods. How many times have you heard, or read here, that combi's are only good for flats as the flow is so poor, etc, etc, bla, bla, rubbish, when 2 bath jobs are around and most flowrates between simple flats jobs to the 22 litres/min?
Please explain "real fast". Why would they be any faster than a conventional boiler?
Don't blather on about heating the water first. This can be dealt with with the timer.
Ben
Most are 85,000 to 100,000 btu/h, when the heating load is usually
40,000-50,000 BTU/h, so zippo warm up.Our know-it-all continues...
You don't have a timer for DHW with a combi.
Is this true for the CH exchanger? I thought this was lower than the hot water exchanger?
Ben
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