Several things wrong with new flat - no central heating, low hot water pressure even with water pump, noisey pump

[Dave Plowman (News)]

And just how long do you think this is before the boiler starts heating the cylinder?

[kiich]

hi john thanks for the reply.

Just checked everything i was going to this weekend after reading allthe replies etc.

first of all, thanks for all the replies by everyone - i guess the things i am asking is fundamental stuff and maybe i shouldnt be doing this without knowing much about DIY - but who wouldnt want to know what's going in his/her OWN house once they purchase their first property?

i'm just asking for answers to my concerns - and i appreciate even the ones telling me i shouldnt be doing some of these things myself - as i do kind of agree and i apologies if i am misunderstaning/getting confused on certain stuff.

but if you can imagine if you have never seen something before and wanted to learn, i would imagine starting with the most fundamental question is an ok way to start to learn? if i was helping someone with something in my profession, i wouldnt start off by telling them that they are a troll (whatever that means :(...)

anyways, rant over :) and here's more questions:

1) i do have a chunky manual room stat - and i cant even find it on the sunvic website anymore. and i do hear it click as i rotate it around.

2) i took the motor of the motorised valve off the other night - and saw a tap spindle. didnt have any lable/indication to say which way to tur nfor CH or HW etc - so i just turned it the "other" way around - and my radiators came on!! my boiler's timer settings was on CH and HW BOTH.

so if i turn the spidnle manualy, the CH comes on.

that means it can only be:

a) the motor is buggered for the motorised valve OR b) the wiring is not telling the boiler to do CH

correct?

so if i left the spindle in the position where the CH started to work, does that mean my HW will now NOT work? i did not see or work out what/where this "mid-position" is though on the brass bit - is it inside the motor part?

thanks

[kiich]

if it is "spring return diversion valve", does that mean its 2 port or

3 port? havent checked the room stat yet

[John Rumm]

Ask away. you will probably get all the answers you need if you ignore the occasional diversion!

Don't worry... You will soon find which jobs you feel comfortable taking on yourself. You just need to learn when to ignore the "wet wing" of the uk.d-i-y party ;-)

From time to time you may see posts asking deliberately obtuse questions with the only purpose being to start an argument or wind folks up. Some folks don't remember what it was like to be a novice and band the term around a bit too easily!

Good - the mechanics sound like they are working.

if so you can buy the motor part separately from the wet bit. That saves having to mess about with plumbing if it is just the motor that has gone titsup.

Yup....

or possibly the valve is very stiff and the motor is trying to turn it but can't. (you would know that from how hard it was to turn manually).

If it is a mid position valve then it would be as the name suggests - about half way through the rotation between one extreme and the other. In the mid position you will get the hot water flow from the boiler divided between the cylinder and the rads. Did you count the number of wires connected up to the valve electronics?

[John Rumm]

Diversion would imply three port - i.e. it diverts flow from one circuit to another (think of set of railway points). A two port valve can only stop or allow flow. These are typically called zone valves.

[kiich]

John - thanks for the re-assurance about asking Questions, it is a good to know you dont mind helping complete DIY novice like myself ;)

John Rumm wrote: [...]

But how do I check the "clicking" mechanism part is actually telling the programmer on the boiler to kick in CH? I have now set the settings on the boiler programmer to be just "CH only" and to "Constant"

So I was *assuming* when I rotate the room stat to the highest it can go i.e. 25 degrees plus, that will start the boiler up - however it didnt and nothing is happening to the boiler.

it wasnt hard at all which makes me think the valve/spindle is ok and not stuck.

Not yet - I was going to leave that till when I know for sure that it isn't the wiring - can I say that for sure now?

I do think it has 5 wires in as the label on the motor part has a wiring diagram and it shows 5 wires.

How can I check whether it is the motor in the motorised valve for sure? I was expecting the motor part to at least make some sound/vibration when I

1) Have the room stat set to highest and 2) Have the setting on the boiler programmer for CH only

but when I do that, the motor part doesnt move/make sounds at all - i would have thought it will try and rotate the spindle?

thanks

[John Rumm]

Na, we can put up with Dr. Drivel here (don't ask!) - so novice questions are no problem.

It ought to (allowing for the possibility of the current room temperature being so high as already be warmer than the maximum setting on the stat).

If you here a click however then that suggests that it is switching.

OK, so we are talking stat wiring or motor then...

Sounds like it is a mid position valve then...

It will only make a noise when it moves from one position to another.

It should. But you still need to work out if the problem is the lack of direction to do so (i.e. from the stat) or the lack of ability to carry out the request (i.e. dead motor).

Here is where you need a multimeter on the stat. Look to see if it has a wiring diagram. It will have a live wire in, a switched live out, and might also have a neutral. If it has a neutral that is easy. Set your meter to a range where it can do 240V AC, put the black probe on the neutral, and the red on the live in. You should see 240V permanently. Now put the red on the switched live. Depending on the position of the stat you should see either 0V or 240V. Each time you go over the click position you should see it change. If not, you need a new stat.

If there is no neutral, disconnect the stat completely (noting the positions of the wires) and measure between the in an out terminals with the meter set to a resistance range. As you go over the click position you should see a transition from high to low (i.e almost zero) resistance. Again if not, new stat time. If working re-attach the stat.

If that looks ok, follow the wires back to the time switch/boiler and repeat the test there. You should see the same behaviour. If not then suspect a wiring fault between stat and time switch.

Next look at the wires going out to the valve. (the wiring diagram on the valve body (if there is one) will tell you which wire is which. See if you can see a sensible behaviour there - i.e. a demand going out to valve to move it to the CH position, If not suspect the timer/programmer.

You would also expect to see a demand out to the boiler and pump to go with the one to the valve. The fact that you said the boiler went off in on of your other postings would suggest that if the fault is to do with the stat you ought to have found it by now. However I will describe the rest of the procedure for completeness.

If ok repeat the test at the valve end. If the behaviour is not the same then you have a wiring fault between boiler and valve. If not then replace the valve motor.

[Doctor Evil]

This Rumm fell is an amateur, so don't take anything they say seriously.

[kiich]

Thanks John.

I will print this out and check at home - marvellous stuff! will post back with the result (and most likely more questions ;-)) soon!