Please show us exactly where as my gas fitter tells me that provided that I do not interfere with the gas path, thats the gas connections and valves then I can do certain work on the boiler..
Like change a PCB .. that's not in the gas path..
We're talking about 2 different things.
Working on gas appliances is the wording in the regulations. Installing a gas fire contravened this, landlord was charged accordingly.
Working on the water side doesn't contravene, I believe. Taking the front off most boilers is gas work, since it's room-sealed & air is drawn through the boiler enclosure.
Fitting a PCB is most definitely gas work, IMHO. You should ensure it works properly on reassembley; the PCB controls the start-up sequence and gas combustion.
I've never seen a boiler like that. What make?
I'd be nice if your fitter was right but I wonder if it's quite as simple as whether or not it's work in the gas path. I think the relevant bit of the legisaltion* is, as I've mentioned up-thread, not regulation 3 (which deals with "competent" persons) but regulation 36. That deals with the duties of landlords. Regulation 36(2) requires landlords to maintain gas fittings and flues in a safe condition; 36(3) to carry out safety checks and keep records; and 36(4) to use approved persons for the work in (2) and (3). A gas fitting is defined to mean - in summary - any appliance or pipework. So the question is not just whether you are competent to change a PCB. It is whether having done that and put the it back together you have "maintained in a safe condition" the boiler you worked on. I can read it either way. On the one hand changing a PCB is not part of the required maintenance or safety checks any more than - say - changing the FCU which feeds the boiler. OTOH in the course of opening the boiler to change the PCB it has not been maintained in a safe (and now working) condition by an approved person. I don't know of a definitive view. I've heard gas fitters (not as helpful as yours) argue that merely removing the cover from a room sealed boiler crosses the line. I suspect HSE would agreee. But then they (mostly) would, wouldn't they?
Agreed - being a Landlord changes the game somewhat, legally speaking.
'Air is drawn through the boiler casing' might have been a better choice of words.
A friend asked me to have a look at their combi boiler once, I don't recall the make, Saunier Duvall or some similar cheapish brand. It kept locking out. I said I'm not Corgi, etc., but will have a look. I took the casing off and looked; nothing wrong that I could see. 'Sorry', I said, 'I've no idea' and I put the casing back on. It worked perfectly after that.
I still don't know what was wrong but would assume the casing hadn't been fitted correctly by the Corgi bloke who'd serviced it shortly before.
Most of them. Vaillant, I believe; my one draws air from outside via the casing enclosure.
It has been discussed on the DIYnot forum where several GasSafe types lurk. Search the archives there.
I'm really not familiar with the regulations at all but going purely on what you say above, I as a layman would say that in this context there is a world of difference between "competent" and "approved".
To be approved you need some sort of paperwork from a suitable approval body (I assume in this case Gas Safe). Although even when in possession of this paperwork you may still be less competent than someone else who has never had cause to apply for approval.
Many years ago at my local flying club several of the pilots were current RAF pilots. As the RAF is not subject to CAA rules most of them had never taken the CAA RT exam. In the strict letter of aviation law they were not approved to use the radio in a civil registered Cessna as they did not have the necessary RT licence. (Despite the fact that they could legally fly a Tri-Star into Heathrow and were doubtless far more competent than any of the PPL pilots who did have authorisation by virtue of passing the exam)
I expect that the fact the supply to the meter was also substandard, it made it rather more difficult to level all the blame on this one individual.
You mean like the IPHE have been campaigning for...?
My Vaillant (624 system boiler) has the internals of the case basically open to the outside world via the air intake off the concentric flue. The fan driven combustion air intake draws its air from the interior of the boiler case - in effect running the boiler case at negative pressure. Its quite a good system in the sense that it does not require a perfect seal on the case to remain safe - if it leaks, it might suck some air out of the room rather than the flue, but it makes it very unlikely that combustion by products could ever escape the case into the room.
Yes very much so. I have no qualms over doing my own work, but would not countenance doing anything in a rented property without approved person oversight.
snip
Isn't it the case that under the original version of Part P even those electrical engineers who had devised the rules were barred from undertaking any work reserved for scheme members.
That is the cop out I was expecting of not being able to find non-existent articles.
I have and you're talking through your arse as usual.
There is no landlord ever prosecuting for purely working on gas.
No, Fred dear. You look for it if you want it and you'll find it. I don't want it, so I won't be looking.
The problem is that your an amateur who put forward an opinion and you were wrong. There's no problem with that, it happens. The problem seems to be that you can't accept that you were wrong.
Oh dear, Fred is getting cross.
Prosecuted and convicted of manslaughter, both the landlord and some muppet who helped him.
You really shouldn't get into an argument with me about heating stuff, I have a memory like a big skip and remember all manner of obscure, minor details.
Forget Fred - it would be useful to share the story with the rest of us. I don't know where to start with the search for this, but I suspect you do and could find it in a matter of moments.
Good choice of boiler, I hope.
Well since you've asked, I'd just Google for the relevant phrases like anyone else. I didn't think it was of interest to anyone else.
I'd said; "There was a case in which a landlord had installed a gas appliance in one of his rented-out flats (second-hand gas fire ISTR). There was an accident."
Well, look! Barry Stone & Stanley Rogers, convicted of manslaughter. Charges of "fitting gas fires when not registered with Gas Safe" were 'allowed to lie on file', presumably because they were eclipsed by the manslaughter convictions. They'd have been convicted of that as well if the prosecution had carried through. ISTR an HSE statement that any payment, direct, indirect (e.g., rents) or in kind required registration. I really can't be arsed to look that up.
On Thursday, October 24, 2013 9:19:02 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:
Nice looking pair.
Interesting. But presumably still works to spec without the casing? Be a bit difficult to do any repairs etc if it didn't work with the case removed?
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