Septic tank upgrade.

Hi Everybody, Any thoughts on this one? I've an old septic tank - single chamber I think - which discharges via equally old land drains. Drainage is not good, which normally means 2-3 pump-outs during the winter months, and some water coming to the surface. The soil is a heavy clay/sand mix so drainage is poor anyway - I did a percolation test earlier this year and in one test pit it took more than 24 hours for the water to drain away completely. We recently discovered a previous owner has attempted to alleviate the problem by extending the drain to link into a covered ditch inside our boundary which takes the highways drainage. Not good, and the this drain is often blocked anyway. Rainwater drainage off the house is via a disused well. So, what's the best upgrate plan? I guess the 'no expense spared' solution would be new land drains plus a Klargester biodisc or similar. I.E. roughly £9k based on recent quotes. However, any suggestions for a cheaper solution - e.g. I have heard of aeration kits to improve the performance of existing septic tanks. Or is there any way of treating the grey water so it can safely be discharged via a separate system - or even down the well?

SR.

Reply to
SR
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Nah. Just go for the Biodisc. You won't regret it. Septic tanks are crap! They may have worked 50 years ago when people couldn't afford soap, but they don't now.

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

Even if you fit the most expensive digester you can find, the only cure the drainage problem is loads of land drains, almost horizontal.

My advice, based on what I did a couple of years ago: keep the existing tank, fit dip pipes if there aren't any, then dig out the largest area you can manage for the soakaway.

My soakaway is about 100m in total, laid in terraces to keep them horizontal, and on top of the heavy clay. And the best bit is, it's all in my next-door neighbours garden!

Reply to
Nigel Molesworth

I assume you got consent from the Enviroment Agency for this scheme? If not you may find it impossible to sell your house quite apart from any penaties the EA may impose.

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

I gave some thought to this when I had to jump through the Environment Agency hoops regarding my septic tank renewal.

What is the likelihood of the EA refusing to allow any kind of soakaway (from a septic tank or biodisc system) and would the householder have any kind of legal recourse if their house suddenly became worthless because it had no sewage system ?

cross-posted to uk.legal

Cheers,

John

Reply to
john1_anderton

APCO do an insert into the existing tank, then get a "consent to discharge" from the EA, and send the water into a river (etc). This is essential what we do. The people of chester & birkenhead pump the water out and drink it. The kids love (yuck dad) this when they work out people are drinking their wee.

I had a difficult site (on a cliff), the Environmant Agency people came out to site, told me what to write on the application form for the "consent to discharge", and we were all sorted.

You need a "consent to discharge" to be legal.

Rick

Reply to
Rick

From my time doing this, they prefer a mini sewage treatment system, wether that be fully mechanical (like the biodisc) or with a secondary cleaning on the septic tank (like a read bed).

When I purchased my house it did not have a "consent to discharge", and the fitted system was not lin line with any regulation. I knocked the price of a new system, off the asking price.

Rick

Reply to
Rick

The EA can of course refuse consent if a satisfactory solution cannot be found. The output from a mini-treatment plant such as the biodisc is much less polluting than a septic tank so it would be preferable. If the there is no alternative but to discharge into a watercourse then additional treatmentmay be necessary which will cost. The house owner would have no recouser if it had to be declared uninhabitable.

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

In article , john1 snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com writes

Consider a biotank

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Reply to
Mr X

Should be nearer 5.5k Especially if you self install (digger, lots of gravel, etc.)

If building control get to hear of it, they will insist.

Bite the bullet, go Klargester, and have a long and peaceful interlude - need emptying every other year unless you are a hiushold f ten...

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

The following from the EA site might concentrate your mind as to the urgency.

The Environment Agency has prosecuted a Chichester man who caused sewage to enter a West Sussex watercourse after he breached an enforcement notice to seal his cesspool.

Mr Jonathan Falkner pleaded guilty to both offences at Chichester Magistrates Court on Wednesday 23 November 2005. Mr Falkner was fined £500 for each offence and was ordered to pay costs of £1,014.

A cesspool is a storage tank for sewage and must be emptied at regular intervals. As a result of a year of investigations into discharges from Mr Falkner's house, the Environment Agency served a notice on him to carry out works to his cesspool.

One requirement was that the cesspool and associated pipework, chambers and equipment were to be sealed and made watertight by 25 March 2004. By June

2004 the defendant showed the Environment Agency that he had apparently sealed up the end of the discharge pipe with expanding foam and a drain plug. Mr Falkner was then advised that the discharge must remain fully blocked and that he should regularly check that the pipe was still sealed.

The Court heard that following a report from a member of the public on 31 March 2005, an Environment Agency Officer had cause to visit Mr Falkner's property regarding the cesspool on site.

While the Environment Agency Officer could see that the plug and foam were still in place it appeared that effluent was draining out through the soil around the discharge pipe. The effluent smelt of sewage and was leaking from the cesspool into an adjoining ditch. Green tracer dye was placed into the cesspool to confirm the source of the discharge, and on inspection the following day it showed that the effluent around the pipe contained the dye.

There was no possible way that the green dye trace could have escaped from the cesspool except through a leak or crack in the tank or discharge pipe.

The Environment Agency Officer took a sample of the discharge that was leaking from around the pipe. This showed that the discharge had a BOD level of 147mg/l an ammonia level of 26mg/l and large numbers of faecal coliforms.

BOD is shorthand for Biochemical Oxygen Demand and is a measure of the amount of oxygen which is taken up by the bacteria which live in the discharge to the detriment of a watercourse and which at high levels can cause fish to suffocate.

Raw sewage has a BOD level in the range of 300-350mg/l so clearly this discharge was half the strength of raw sewage. Ammonia will kill fish at

6mg/l and while there was no evidence of fish deaths the level is some four times a fatal dose. The presence of large numbers of faecal coliforms shows that this discharge is one of excrement.

Chichester Harbour is a Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI), a Special Area of Conservation under the Habitats Directive and a Special Protection Area and is therefore protected by a raft of controls on activities within it.

Speaking after the case Environment Officer Rob Cornell said: "This case demonstrates that in this day and age the discharge of untreated sewage to the environment, whether from the foul sewer or from a private sewage treatment plant, is totally unacceptable.

"More so in this modern age with the large quantities of household chemicals found in wastewater from today's households. The Environment Agency take discharges of sewage very seriously and warns that in such cases enforcement action will be taken.

"This will hopefully serve as a warning to the owners of properties served by cesspools to check that their cesspools do not have any discharge pipes, holes or cracks which could discharge untreated sewage to the environment."

In mitigation Mr Falkner said that the sewage escaped into a marshy area of land and there was no evidence that it entered the controlled waters of Chichester Harbour. As well as carrying out increased emptying of the cesspool from four times a year to now every three weeks, Mr Falkner has recently spent £6,000 on upgrading his sewage treatment facilities and this new system will be in place shortly.

The Magistrates said that although they were pleased Mr Falkner had taken measures to fix the problem they felt "this was rather like shutting the door after the horse has bolted".

Mr Falkner was fined a total of £1,000 and was ordered to pay costs of £1,014.

Reply to
Peter Crosland

The message from "Peter Crosland" contains these words:

So where does that leave householders who have ancient septic tanks that were installed under a laxer (or indeed non existent) regime?

Reply to
Roger

If they live out in the sticks and not near any jobsworths they should be quite happy. Septic Tanks are not cesspools BTW.

Long may the carbon cycle reign

Reply to
John

It means that unless they take steps to install a system that has an output level of pollutants that are acceptable under current legislation they are liable to prosecution.

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

The message from "John" contains these words:

I am well aware of that having lived with both but earlier posts made much of the need for consent to discharge even for sepic tanks. Our cesspit back in the 1950s had a pumped discharge that even then was probably illegal.

Reply to
Roger

If its there already,as with most stuff covered by BDO etc its OK to leave it.

The MOMENT you upgrade it in any way, new regulations tend to apply.

I.e. leave it alone and they cannot touch you. Make a change and it must be upgraded to modern specs.

Now although septic tanks are more health and env than building control, I am fairly sure teh same sort of contidtins apply.

I am deeply greatful that my old and somewhat pongy septic tank was disallowed, because the klargetser only ponged once - after it had slipped its pulley and stopped working.

A cess pit is not a septic tank BTW.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Sorry to say but you are quite wrong. The EA can, and do, prosecute people who hve a system that is causing pollution. Whilst the chances are that they will not find out if they do the consequencesx are likely to be costly. This can happen by chance or by someone reporting it.

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

Based on your "contributions" you must make a living from enforcing petty rules?

Reply to
John

That was more or less what I was expecting. Rough breakdown was 6.5k for the tank installed, + 2.5k for a new set of land rains.

Quite, but what are options? IE, are there simple grey water treatment methods - filtering for example? (I'm mainly curious here - as you say, a proper sewage treatment plant for all the drainage is probably the best way to go.)

SR

Reply to
SR

Far from it. The rules are anything but petty and in any case I retired from another business sector altogether. If you consider activity that can result in considerable financial penalties along with a criminal record petty then you need to change your attitude. Since the OP has a system dischargeing directly into a watercourse he may well be found out by routine EA inspection. The consequences of such a discovery are severe hence my earlier comments. This is quite apart from the benefit that everyone gains from a less polluted environment.

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

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