Septic tank replacement

[Ian Johnston]

Hi Folks,

I've been spending some fun time having a Good Hard Stare at my septic tank. It's roughly 6' long by 2'6" wide by I-don't-know-how-deep because it is so seriously choked up with sludge. I have the Big Vacuum booked for Monday, but I have my doubts about its long term viability - it's at least 100 years old, drystone built, and crumbling.

So it seems sensible to think about replacement. According to a very helpful building control chap at the local council (Dumfries and Galloway) they wouldn't care at all if it was replaced with another rectangular tank in the same place and of the same size - a more modern design would arouse their interest, though.

I am not sure this is something I want to Do Myself, but in the hope that there may be people here with relevant experience...

1) Is there any pressing need to go for a bottle tank, or do rectangular ones work well enough in comparison that I can reasonably avoid the extra hassle?

2) What are the rectangular alternatives? Would I need to have a block one built, or a concrete one cast, in situ, or is it possible to get a liner for the existing tank?

3) Any tips about the best people to ask to undertake this sort of work?

Sorry to be a bit vague - it's been a lurking presence at the far end of the garden for a bit, and I am just getting the hang of dong something with it.

Alternatively, I have up to 50' of 6' wide by 2' deep former mill-lade available - anyone here installed a domestic reed bed system?

Ian

[Broadback]

I found my supplier/installer in the yellow pages. It cost about £2500 five years ago, it was a flask type, built on very sloping ground the soakaway was very deep, I'd guess 6feet at the deepest. It replaced the concrete one and is much better, if only that the only signs are 2 manhole covers.

[Blair Malcolm]

There is nothing wrong with the old brick type tank. Once emptied you can recement the brickwork. If you can't do it yourself a tradesman will do it for a fraction of the cost of installing a balloon type. If the bacteria are working correctly this type of tank needs emptying very rarely. You must take care to avoid strong disinfectants etc. Mine is over a 100 years old and hasn't been emptied in 15 years. Blair

[Rick]

I DIYed my system, OK I had some help froma digger driver ...

First you need a "consent to discharge" from the Environment Agency. How you dispose of the water from the tank sets if you need a simple seperator or a package sewage treatment unit. I had a very challenging site on a cliff above a river, the EA lady came out and had a look, and then told me what to do to get a consent. it costs about 100 quid.

APCO do a packaged treatment unit, you can slot into an existing tank, and you can discharge direct into a river, subject to EA consent.

IF you are in an area where this thing is common, groundwork contractors, or plant hire bods will probably have done a few. In North Wales look up C.T.Roberts in yellow pages.

I did mine in 3 days, the excavator was 15.50 inc driver an hour, and it was my only cost beoynd materials, plus of cource the BCO, and EA, a 100 quid each.

And you are supposed to pump them out every year.

The relevant section of buildingregs is readable, has lots of pictures and stuff, and its easy to see all your options.

Rick

[Pete]

Scrap it and buy a Klargester. I did, and have never regretted it. I don't know how much land you have, but I dug a web of dissip[ation pipes and fed the remainder through a reed bed. Fish, frogs and newts live happily in the resulting very small pond, so I must be on the right track.

[Rick]

Why, those things are so expensive, and I have absolutly no where to dig a soakaway, my garden is all up hill from my house, the only down hill is a cliff, with a river at the bottom.

The kids love the idea that people in birkenhead drink our wee, when they get the water back out the river ........

Rick

[Pete]

Not expensive. I've never had to have mine emptied, and that's 100 quid a go where I live. Ten years now.....

[Rick]

Sorry, this subject really anoyes me, saving a 100 quid a year so your system leaks solids into the waterout flow, so your kids can fall into your reed bed, when looking at the frogs ....... In South Africia a certain fish is served regularly at dubious resturants, and they "farm" it in the sewers.........

Is maintaining the system corectly it not a condition of the EA consent to discharge ? I just checked mine - it is.

The EA website dicusses have several thousand septic tack systems fail each year, the Klargester website dicusses atht ther system require from 1-4 service visits per year, depending on model, and something called "routine emptying", the EA website dicusses how the maximum punishment for polution is a number of years in prison .......

The Klargester owners manual describes routine de-sludging as essential, never in 10 years hardly sounds "routine".

Whats your address, let me report your system to the EA ........

Rick

[Mike]

Whilst I don't know the person with the Klargester, I think the EA would find his, my own septic tank system, and probably everybody else on this site with either, totally safe. Any responsible owner monitors their system monthly as the penalty for overflowing is so high, not just in legal terms but also in the cost of digging the whole system out and replacing it.

But in fact most systems simply don't generate anything but water out. The solids break down so quickly that there is no chance of them reaching the outflow pipes. If your system is not doing this then perhaps you are not using it correctly, possibly by polluting it with non-recommended chemicals. I bet 99% of the septic tank failures you mention are due to this.

[Owain]

If frogs live in it the outflow can't be that bad. It's only s**te after all, not napalm.

OP's in Scotland, EA have no remit here.

Owain

[Ian Johnston]

Indeed. It's SEPA up here, and I have a discharge certificate from them which allows me to discharge my septic tank directly into the river.

Ian

[Mike]

And in doing so probably makes the river LESS polluted :-)

[Ian Johnston]

: I've been spending some fun time having a Good Hard Stare at my septic : tank. It's roughly 6' long by 2'6" wide by I-don't-know-how-deep : because it is so seriously choked up with sludge. I have the Big : Vacuum booked for Monday...

Well, to my surprise the Big Vacuum from Scottish Water (who said they couldn't do it for a month, so I booked a private contractor instead) turned up this morning at 8.30. He managed to get about a foot of nasty stuff off the top before his hose started choking on stones so much that there was no point in going on. So I did it the hard way, and got another eighteen inches or so down before I started running out for spade reach and enthusiasm. That means there is about another eighteen inches to go, but there is now vastly more room in the tank than there has been.

It's a pretty damn simple system: just a dry stone walled rectangle, no internal divisions and not even an outlet pipe - it relies on seepage through the walls. I may stick in a proper outlet, but on the if-it's-not-broke-don't-fix-it principle I am tempted to leave it to go on working as it has the past hundred years.

However, I have followed a lead elsewhere here and had a chat with the nice man from Crest Water - I'm hoping that something reed-beddy will happen in the not-too-distant future ...

Ian