self-closing fire doors in self-catering house?

[Adam Funk]

Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in Yorkshire earlier this summer. I think the house was about 10 years old.

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

[Andy Burns]

loft conversion, or 3 stories?

[Adam Funk]

3 storeys with no conversion (there was a loft hatch, which I didn't look through, in one of the ceilings upstairs).

[Jonathan]

True. We have a self-catering let on three floors that was recently converted (5 years ago) and that was the building reg requirement. Same for our own house. In the let the ground floor door has an electro-magnetic catch to hold it open that is released by the smoke detectors if they go off. Imagine what would happen if there was a fire with fatalities and the owners had been discovered to have provided door stops. The fire doors were the biggest topic of discussion when we were inspected to get our final certificate.

Jonathan

[Cash]

That is correct - and the whole point of a firedoor is to hold-back the spread of a fire for upto an hour.

The legislation on that has been in for quite some time, and I can recall having a contract around the late 90s to fit around 150 internal fire doors and perko springs (excluding the bathrooms and separate toilets) to several blocks of three storey flats (complete with enhanced doorstops and Georgian wired glass).

Cash.

[DerbyBorn]

"Cash" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Surely a proper well adjusted door closer (not spring and chain) would reduce the complaints.

[Mr Pounder]

The owners are quite correct. A fire door is useless if it is wedged open - usually by a fire extinguisher.

[The Natural Philosopher]

not sure if this is relevant but a LOT of companies have spring loaded fire doors that stay open because a magnet sticks to a bit of material that loses its magnetism at high temps. So they can be left permanently open unless they get hit: Then they close.

[service]

They are not allowed to use door wedges or fire extinguishers to hold the f= ire door open. However, they are allowed to install proper fire door retain= ers. A simple one for re-fitting is the Dorgard, which is wireless and does= not need to be linked to an alarm system.

[charles]

but you can get "kickdown" door stops which release when the fire alarm sounds.

[charles]

more likely the magnet is an electromagnet which loses its power when then fire alarm goes off. I suspect the High temp ones would be far too late - the door itself could well be on fire by then.

[ARW]

Use plastic ones and wait for them to melt!

[charles]

I'd rather they closed before that happens

[Bob Eager]

We have those at work, also some standalone door 'wedges' that release if they hear a fire alarm.

[The Natural Philosopher]

that actually depends on what you use. Curie temps can be tailored quite exactly

[John Rumm]

That will be why then... ten years ago self closers on all the doors from habitable rooms onto the main escape route was the norm. The doors however on the lower two storeys did not need to be fire doors.

These days IIUC, self closers are not required, but all the doors from habitable rooms that open onto the primary escape route need to be 30 min fire doors.

[Graham.]

On the basis that hydrogen cyanide poisoning is more humane than being burnt alive?

[polygonum]

Cyanide poisoning is more treatable that being burnt alive. :-)

Hydroxocobalamin. Up to 5 grams or so.

[Nightjar]

...

I would be more concerned that it was doing nothing to stop the spread of smoke so long as it stayed open.

Colin Bignell

[Andy Dingley]

There seems to be no consistent policy (or implementation) over this and it's the whim of local fire inspectors. Is wired glass essential, or forbidden? Must perfectly good firedoors be removed and replaced, for new ones with magic plastic plugs in their edges? Must new intumescent strips be fitted to non firedoors (an awkward enough job), despite not even bothering to check that the old strips have fallen out of some of the old doors?

However you can wedge firedoors open (at a price) if you use magnetic holdbacks that are self-closing in the event of a fire. I'd check with your inspector first though.