Securing a safe

[Distorted Vision]

Hi,

I need to secure a safe to a wall. The safe is on the floor and the position of the mounting holes mean that it will have to be mounted onto the skirting board. The wall is a partition wall. Am I okay to do this or is it not advisable? If I drill through the skirting board will it mean it go through to the baseplate of the wall and not fibreglass. Sorry I don't know much about this!

The mounting holes at the back of the safe are 9mm in diameter. What sort of screws and rawplugs should I use. I'm guessing I should use coach screws. What length screws should I use and what depth should I drill to?

Many thanks for your help!

[John Rumm]

A stud wall will usually be built from 2" wide timber. So unless your fixing is The mounting holes at the back of the safe are 9mm in diameter. What

If attempting to hit the wood, then no need to drill at all. 3" coach screws would ok for most walls. Whether they will resist the attentions of a crow bar however is a different matter.

[Martin Pentreath]

This might sound a bit like the man who was asked how to get to X and said "Ah, well I wouldn't start from here." Anyway, I wouldn't fix a safe to a stud wall. Can't you find a masonry wall, or a concrete floor? All a crook would need is a jigsaw and ten minutes to cut it out. In the likely event that he doesn't happen to have one on his first visit, he's likely to be back with one once he knows there are goodies available.

[Andy Dingley]

Double-sided tape. It will resist a quick light tug, and the wall will break anyway if they use any sort of lever. Find something _solid_ to fasten it to, otherwise you really are wasting your time.

If you're stuck fastening to timber, put a couple of steel strips with attached nuts on the far side of the timber, attach them as best you can and then bolt through the timber and into the nuts. They can still break the timber completely, but at least they have to do more than pull a few woodscrews out.

Safes mustn't wobble. If it doesn't budge, they might give up. If it moves a little, they'll keep at it until they're in.

If you have no masonry, make some. Cast a concrete plug or pier and fasten to that.

For bolting to concrete, Rawl shield bolts (the all-metal ones) are good. For fresh concrete, weak concrete, blockwork or bricks go with something that exerts less expansion force and is less likely to split the masonry. Resin kits are easy and stronger than nylon plugs. Rubber expanding plugs are good. If you've got good strong bricks and an indifferent safe, then M8 screws into good quality plastic plugs (grey nylon, not poly) and an accurately sized hole in the middle of a brick is OK.

[Bruce]

Double-sided tape will not be enough to keep the insurance company happy. Evidence of strong fixings is needed to prevent refusal of a claim.

If it isn't insured, then it's not a problem.

[Distorted Vision]

Thank you both for your replies.

I should clarify something - my safe doesn't really contain much of significant value. Its mostly important documents like passports and birth certificates etc. The objective of securing was as Andy says - enough for it to not wobble so that they might just give up. If its left unsecured they might take the safe on the chance that it contained something valuable. If anything if its secured then it might be a distraction and they might waste time trying to remove instead of stealing alot more valuable things.

I could bolt it to the concrete floor in the garage or one of the brick walls in there but its just not convenient having it located down there. So I'm back to securing it on the skirting board. How would determine where to locate it so that the coach screws are going through the studs. Would it just be a case of trial and error.

I'll check the area with my voltage / metal detector but is there anything I should be aware of that I could potentially screw into?

Many thanks.

[Distorted Vision]

I just ran my voltage / metal detector along the area where I want to mount my safe to the skirting board and where one of the coach screws will be screwed - it detected metal. I'm not able to run the detector along the full length of the skirting board because there is a bookcase etc up against the wall. So I ran it along the full length of the skirting board on the other side of the partition wall in the adjacent bedroom. It is detecting metal at 40cm intervals. I assume that it is detecting the nails which are securing the studs into the baseplate? From what I understand studs are placed 40cm apart? Do I risk hitting one of the nails if screwing in an M8 coach screw?

[Bruce]

As long as it's a nail, and not an electric cable, you should be fine.

I would try drilling a small diameter pilot hole where the coach screws will be going. If the pilot hole doesn't hit a nail, you will be fine. If it does, drill 10mm higher and set the safe on some 10mm plywood.

[John]

Can you drill holes in the base of the safe and bolt it to a joist? If it is beyond your capabilities then take it to an engineering workshop.

[Distorted Vision]

The safe already has holes in the base for securing. The instructions say not to use both. The problem with using the holes in the base is that I don't want to make holes in the carpet

[Distorted Vision]

Okay I've hit a problem. The screw which is scewing into one of the studs is fine - completely solid. The other one which is just going through the skirting board and into the cavity behind is completely useless. The fact that skirting board split there despite drilling a plot hole hasn't helped. Also the coach screws I used (M8 x 75mm) aren't threaded all the way along their length.

So I was wondering if I could partially fill the cavity behind the skirting board with expanding foam filler then fill the skirting with wood filler to give the screw actually something to screw into. I've never used expanding foam filler but I've heard its messy. I also found coach screws at Screwfix which are completely threaded along their length:

thanks,

[Bob Eager]

That's cos they're bolts!

That's cos they're actually screws!

I wonder about the mechanical strength of your solution. It's hardly going to be difficult to lever that bolt out if it's just in some filler. Concrete would be more like it, but even then that needs keying to something.

[John Rumm]

Expanding foam is good for many things, but screwing into is not one of them. (in fact you would get far stronger fixing sticking a blob of it on the top and back of the safe and just gluing it in place with the stuff!)

(it can be messy if you get it on your hands or clothes. If you do, clean it off while it is wet with a designed for the purpose foam cleaner. Also it can take some time to lean how much to use so as not to have it expanding out all over the place)

[Distorted Vision]

If you see my post above you can see that I understand that its not going to difficult to lever it out if they are determined. I can't secure to concrete because its inconvenient having the safe there. I'm actually considering getting another safe in the garage and securing that to the concrete floor and / or the brick wall and locate it where its hidden from view.

Anyway the point with this safe is its better than leaving it unsecured as they will just take the safe. As I said the safe doesn't contain much of high value and could actually be a good distraction to thieves.

[Distorted Vision]

Thanks John.

How about if I fill the cavity starting at the back of the stud wall using small amounts of foam filler at a time and build up in layers of

25mm and then fill the last 75mm depth with Ronseal High Performance Wood Filler. There by the screw will be driving into the wood filler. I figured it would need some foam filler to give the wood filler some support. One problem I've found with using things like wood filler to fill deep holes is applying it when it comes in a tube rather than cartridge.

Hmmm....this is becoming one of these small jobs that is turning into a mission.

Cheers!

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[John Rumm]

How about once have found the studs, to use a sharp knife to cut out a rectangle of plasterboard a bit bigger than the safe. Now stuff the fibreglass out of the way and screw and glue battens to the side of the studs such that they will support a section of 3/4" ply cut to fit between the studs. Screw and glue that in place so that it forms an inner skin just behind the plasterboard. If you are determined to play with some expanding foam, now use it to fill behind your bit of ply. Replace the plasterboard, and fill the cut and make good. Finally screw the safe to the ply through the plasterboard. This is about as strong a fixing as you can get on a stud wall since it spreads the load and transfers it to the studs.

Al alternative would be to insert noggings in the wall where the fixings will go. Taking care to fix them well to the studs.

A bit like where I put some ready to have a basin fixed to them later:

[fictitious]

How about if you forget the safe and find somewhere else to hide your not valuable items .Anyone breaking in who sees a safe will think " Oh!!! Goodies Inside" and attempt to remove it and ,even if they don't get it they'll cause damage .

[Clot]

Thank you. I couldn't believe the number of responses that did not consider this. The desire to mount a safe against skirting and into floorboards tells me that this is a total wind-up by a Troll or a journalist working for The Sun.

[Andy Dingley]

No, of course not - but then the suggestion to use DS tape was pure sarcasm anyway, I never expected it to be taken seriously! My point being that unless it is attachable to something solid, then it doesn't matter what you use.