I guess that' part of what I was thinking - that it could be an achievable challenge.
That book is quite a find for all sorts of traditional methods and very detailed. I suspect by the time I've read it all, the windows will all have rotted away by themselves.....(!)
I must admit that very brand was my plan A for a while. I saw some in the flesh and they do look pretty good. The only problem is that I have sort of persuaded myself now that I'd like the windows to all be similar. Being in a conservation area means we have to have timber frames at the front, so that really means timber (refurb or replace) all round.
Indeed. And do you really have to wait a year? Maybe a day between would be a different time.
Building control only really care about what they see. If doing a repair doesn't need to ne notified to them well, why disturb them from doing other things?
ting >rails and the obviously stuck-on horns tend to be a bit of a give-awa y.
are available (had you bothered to look).
I was actually thinking about the top to bottom dimension, which has more e ffect on the appearance from any significant distance away. My comments wer e based on the site's picture gallery, though they would also apply to tho se which I've seen 'in the flesh' (which of course may not be from the same source - in fact many of the ones I've seen are less convincing than the o nes in the picture gallery)
ont in >my house (occupied by 1891) have single panes and have horns, the o nes in the >dining room at the back, which was probably the servants hall w hen built, have >6 panes in each sash and no horns.
OT just internal glazing bars in the DG units - to save you the bother of l ooking) I've not seen their explanation for horns before - the books I've read clai m they were introduced to give extra strength at the joint when moving to t he simpler mortice and tenon joint from the stronger but more time-consumin g dovetail joint that was previously used. I've never come across damage to (or by) the weights caused by opening the sash too far...
are better than the usual hinged versions as replacements for sash windows.
es every few years so they don;t rot again, fine ;>)
I've seen it suggested that in the long term you're comparing the cost of o ne timber window plus regular repainting to the cost of regular replacement of UPVC when they reach end of life, and that the timber windows may be ch eaper. There are so many variables here that anyone with an axe to grind ca n probably make their preferred option look best by making the right assump tions...
Northumberland) which must have cost a fortune, with a total of 20 double glazed units in each pair of sashes...
Pretty similar to the originals, as I remember.
eeting >rails and the obviously stuck-on horns tend to be a bit of a give-a way.
ns are available (had you bothered to look).
effect on the appearance from any significant distance away. My comments w ere based on the site's picture gallery, though they would also apply to t hose which I've seen 'in the flesh' (which of course may not be from the sa me source - in fact many of the ones I've seen are less convincing than the ones in the picture gallery)
indeed...
my "original" victorian replacements have 2" (50mm) "thick" meeting rails
the spec on their web says 48mm outer / 60mm inside which sounds a bit odd
- I'd measure mine but the kids are in bed now ;>)
aim they were introduced to give extra strength at the joint when moving to the simpler mortice and tenon joint from the stronger but more time-consum ing dovetail joint that was previously used. I've never come across damage to (or by) the weights caused by opening the sash too far...
me neither. I've read the horns were added to try to delay onset of rot in the joints. Traditionally (allegedly) only the top sashes would have horns.
e are better than the usual hinged versions as replacements for sash window s.
pies every few years so they don;t rot again, fine ;>)
one timber window plus regular repainting to the cost of regular replaceme nt of UPVC when they reach end of life, and that the timber windows may be cheaper. There are so many variables here that anyone with an axe to grind can probably make their preferred option look best by making the right assu mptions...
how much is a made to measure timber window going to cost though?
if only modern wood supplies were as good as the stuff they had in the old days.
Most modern timber windows have a 5 or 10year G'tee - so expecting much mor e than that is wishful perhaps...
in Northumberland) which must have cost a fortune, with a total of 20 doubl e glazed units in each pair of sashes...
yep a small fortune indeed...
Jim K
"Thank you for your enquiry. Yes we supply our sash windows to many properties within conservation areas."
Jim K
....
Why all this antipathy to Jeld-Wen products? Do you get a commission on the plastic windows you provided a link to or something?
...
I spoke to them in reference to my shed door.
Colin Bignell
...
In the Q&A section, they say:
'YES, conservation areas are sometimes a bit of a sticking point, but on the whole we have had great success. I am sure you will appreciate that each area is different and the majority of the time you are are reliant on one specific individual to give you green light but in our experience we do seem to be having more and more success.'
BTW They are in breach of the law in giving prices exclusive of VAT and delivery on a site aimed at the retail market, without showing the VAT inclusive price at least as prominently.
Colin Bignell
In principle, that could easily be true: For me, the restrictions only apply to those parts of the property visible from the street, so I could easily have them at the back. At the front is a different matter. My next door neighbour found that not only do they need to be timber but also the planners insist on hardwood, even though it's painted. They gave no reason but presumably it's about the relative quality of the timber. On the other hand, they were happy with the idea of double glazing. We have a large double sash at the front of the living room and next door were quoted £5k for replacement. He eventually paid about half that, which I don't much fancy for one window....
All sounds a bit arbitrary doesn't it? I'd enjoy reading their justification for specifying hardwood on appearance grounds!
Jim K
of one timber window plus regular repainting to the cost of regular replace ment of UPVC when they reach end of life, and that the timber windows may b e cheaper. There are so many variables here that anyone with an axe to grin d can probably make their preferred option look best by making the right as sumptions...
ore than that is wishful perhaps...
I'd tend to use that as an argument for retaining original windows if they' re in good enough condition - the wood will probably be more durable than m odern replacements. Whether that's because the general quality of the older wood was better or because the windows made from poorer quality wood have long since rotted away leaving only the best ones I'm not sure...
Joinery quality softwood is as good as it ever was. Problem is there are cheaper alternatives from Canada and elsewhere and, if the end user doesn't know the difference.....
Precisely my view, Jim. Unfortunately, they rarely seem to feel obliged to justify themselves!
er ho ho - nope no connection except a customer.
why do you recommend Jeld Wen sash windows when you haven't bought any?
Jim K
shrug?
Jim K
:
t of one timber window plus regular repainting to the cost of regular repla cement of UPVC when they reach end of life, and that the timber windows may be cheaper. There are so many variables here that anyone with an axe to gr ind can probably make their preferred option look best by making the right assumptions...
more than that is wishful perhaps...
y're in good enough condition - the wood will probably be more durable than modern replacements. Whether that's because the general quality of the old er wood was better or because the windows made from poorer quality wood hav e long since rotted away leaving only the best ones I'm not sure...
then where/when on that continuum do you draw the line and decide "replacem ent makes most sense"?
Jim K
have you asked then? do they really just make it up without justification? worth a challenge somehow shurely? or are you just trying to second guess?
Jim K
.... people get Pd off with wood and buy plastic?
Jim K
That's about the size of it :-)
No connection, except a satisfied customer over many years.
Colin Bignell
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