Running my bath this morning

[Mary Fisher]

The lovely specially smelly stuff (we're going to a rather special wedding tomorrow, OK I KNOW that tv doesn't communicate smells but it will make me feel good) had been put in the hot water and the cold tap was turned on full to make lots of bubbly bubbles (what other kinds are there?)

Meanwhile I went next door to the lav.

When I went back I turned off the cold water ... but it kept on coming. I called Spouse. I shouted Spouse. I panicked and went downstairs to turn off the mains. In the meantime the cold water had made the now tepid water in the tub rise to the overflow.

Spouse wrought his many magic, changed the washer AND the jumper AND the nut which held it all together (where on Earth had that gone to?) and I was able to get into the bath. But I had to waste a lot of that expensive perfume because it was too cold to get into the bath as well as overflowing (especially with my great bulk) and as a native of Yorkshire I begrudged that.

So.

I said that if it had happened when Spouse wasn't there what would I, a helpless little woman, do?

I suggested that he did a regular, e.g. annual, change of ALL the washers etc. in all the taps in the house. If I had to turn off the mains while waiting for a plumber or handy son because one had failed I'd be deprived of tea, central heating, cooking and all sorts of other things apart from making myself nice to know.

He said that a better, if more expensive, solution would be to install an isolator on ALL the taps in the house - that would be about ten.

My questions (if you've read as far as this) are:

a) how much do they cost?

b) is this now a legal requirement?

TIA

Mary

[Bob Minchin]

Screwfix have some, £5.50 for 10 15mm, £14.90 for 10 22mm . For low pressure systems such as DHW make sure you get full flow ones.

I can't imagine them being a legal requirement but I'm not an expert.

Bob

[BigWallop]

If your water is supplied from a tank in the loft, then you'd only need to know where the isolators are on the down pipes from it. The kitchen sink cold tap should now be fed directly from the mains supply to give cleaner drinking water, but this should have a separate isolator on it for maintenance purposes anyway, which saves you turning off the supply to other places if the kitchen is being worked on.

The only other pipe that has any real need for an isolator valve close to it, is the loo flush cistern. This is mainly for maintenance on the float valve and for cleaning.

[Andy Hall]

BES

have isolating valves for 73p each, 10405, 15mm, or £1.48, 10407, 22mm - should be acceptable, even in Yorkshire.

These are chrome ones and one would assume that they would be preferable. There are brass ones for a penny or so less, but probably these would not be acceptable, since as we all know.... "Where there's muck, there's brass". .... or does that mean something else?

The only thing with these is that they do have a small aperture which will reduce the flow. This may not matter on mains supplied taps, but may make tank fed ones disappointing.

A better solution is to use full bore lever ball valves - e.g. 8121 and 8122 at £2.21 and £3.23 respectively - still not a huge sum.

These don't restrict flow at all.

I'm not sure, but it is a good idea. Putting them on supplies to toilets and roof tanks as well is also a good idea.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Mary Fisher]

Andy - what a swift response! Thank you very much. It's also a surprising response - on cost grounds. I imagined they'd be pounds ...

I like the idea of brass ones :-) More wromantic. But since I shan't be polishing them I could bear to live with chrome.

That's a s**th*rn interpretation of the real, alliterative, expression: "Where there's muck there's money". Yes of course we say "brass" for "money" in other contexts but not in that saying, it would lose all its poetry.

All our taps are mains supplied - well, the hot water ones are from the multipoint but it's not a tank. No doubt He'll know if it will affect the pressure, I suppose that's the concern.

That would do for the iffy ones.

Yes, I think so too.

We haven't a roof tank but I assumed that the w.c. cistern would be included. At that price there's no question of it.

Thank you again. Next time He comes up with a cup of tea I'll show him the site.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

It isn't.

It doesn't - yet!

It's not difficult to control the float valve for maintenance and cleaning but I'd like one on there too. Might as well do everything.

That means: kitchen sink hot and cold dishwasher hot and cold washing machine hot and cold outside tap cold sink in bathroom - hot and cold bath - hot and cold wc cistern cold and perhaps multipoint water heater and central heating boiler

Worth it for peace of mind. I made light of this morning's incidident but it was quite alarming. I might not always have someone to deal with it immediately.

Mary

[Dave Plowman]

How often do your taps fail in this way? Most will drip long before they cease to turn off in a big way. I'd guess once every 5 years would be enough for preventative maintenance.

[Roger Mills]

No, as others have said, they're only a few tens of pence each. They are about the same size as an ordinary compression fitting for joining 2 pipes end to end. Once installed, you need to know where they all are, and you need to have a small screwdriver handy with which to operate them. The normal ones (as opposed to the full-flow lever-operated ones) have a small screw in the side which has to be rotated through a quarter of a turn in order to rotate the internal ball into the flow-blocking position.

[If you have a look at the supply pipe to the loo cistern in your local supermarket (if supermarkets in Yorkshire have loos!) you'll see what I mean]

Roger

[BigWallop]

Then how is it ?

Then it will need to be a proper stopcock and not just a service valve.

? Not with you ? A service valve on the supply pipe to the loo cistern is most important. It isolates it when the float valve blows off its washer.

But they already should have valves on them.

These too should already have valves on them.

The should also have an isolator stopcock on the inside of the house. This is used to isolate it in winter time in case it freezes. It should also have a draining point to empty the external section to the tap.

One stopcock on each main hot and cold supply would be quite sufficient instead of taking each individual appliance separately.

Yes, but for maintenance it should already have one on the supply pipe.

The boiler and any other heater appliance should already have isolators in the supplies. These must be fitted on these types of appliance by matter of course and good practice by any competent plumber.

I personally think this would be overkill, but if it makes you feel safer, then by all means go ahead. But if the system is as you say and not supplied from a tank in the loft, then it is all mains fed. If all the taps are fed from the mains, then the small service valves would only give minimum isolation of the appliances. Proper stopcocks would be the normal type of isolator on a mains pressure water supply.

[Mary Fisher]

After looking at the website I realised that there's one on the water suppy to the water heater in the caravan.

Easy :-)

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

It all comes from the rising main in the pantry ... we don't have a tank in the loft.

It hasn't done that yet - in forty odd years (it's a 1937 cistern with copper ball) but I take your point and it WILL have one.

Perhaps they should, but I don't think they have.

See above :-)

er ... ?

Perhaps. But when Spouse does something he goes to town!

They're old too. By today's standards!

Oh it really is :-) There used to be tank in the airing cupboard in the bathroom but that was removed when the multipoint water heater was installed and the horrid hw cylinder taken out and made into lanterns.

I promise that he'll look into it, he's nothing if not thorough. In fact, when he said "isolators" he probably meant something more substantial where appropriate. He's not daft.

Mary

>

[BigWallop]

Good. But don't with over kill on this, as you might cause more problems disturbing the existing pipework than cure anything else.

[Owain]

"Mary Fisher" wrote | The lovely specially smelly stuff (we're going to a rather special wedding | tomorrow, OK I KNOW that tv doesn't communicate smells but it will make me | feel good) had been put in the hot water and the cold tap was turned on | full to make lots of bubbly bubbles (what other kinds are there?) | Meanwhile I went next door to the lav. | When I went back I turned off the cold water ... but it kept on coming. I | called Spouse. I shouted Spouse. I panicked and went downstairs to turn | off the mains. In the meantime the cold water had made the now tepid water | in the tub rise to the overflow.

A neighbour of mine started his bath running, went out into the tenement close for some reason or another with just a towel round his middle, the front door closed behind him (rising butt hinges), no-one else in the top floor flat, no spare key ...

Owain

[Mary Fisher]

Since he installed all the pipework he won't compromise it.

Mary

[Andy Hall]

So did his butt rise??

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Alan]

In message , Mary Fisher wrote

Sod's law says that the replacement washers would be from a batch of inferior quality and all fail within 6 months of fitting. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

How often does a washer fail in this way? I've only had one washer break up in this way in the last 25 years - and it did give me fair warning that it was poorly - it always was a job for next week-end (for six months) :(.

Probably a cheaper solution in terms of time and hassle (assuming DIY)

Service valves - from £10 to £25 from Screwfix for all 10 (depending on type and assuming a mix of 15mm and 22mm). I've fitted them to the pipes for most taps and the loo.

[Owain]

"BigWallop" wrote | "Owain" wrote | > A neighbour of mine started his bath running, went out into the tenement | > close for some reason or another with just a towel round his middle, the | > front door closed behind him (rising butt hinges), no-one else in the top | > floor flat, no spare key ... | And ? Don't leave it there. Please tell us what happened.

Fortunately all the flats have external stopcocks in the close, so by balancing on the stair handrail he was able to turn off the mains, and the internal cold/hot tanks are pretty small.

Stage two involved a large hammer and a crowbar to gain entry, IIRC.

Owain

[BigWallop]

LOL !!!

If he did all the plumbing, he also fitted the taps. Right ? Then one of the taps goes faulty and wont turn off. Now you want him to fit separate isolators everywhere because of this one fault, and now your getting on my case because I make suggestions on what can be done to prevent any major flooding in case it happens again. :-)) I already trust your hubbies plumbing work. :-)) Honestly. I do.

[BigWallop]

Ouch !!!

Well done that man. Now that's quick thinking. And he had a towel at hand to mop his brow. What a lucky bugger. :-))

[BillR]

[SNIP]

Hold on a minute, if all your taps are mains supplied all you have to do is turn off the main stopcock to stop any leaks, works in my daughter's flat.. So you don't need service valves on every tap.... How would you get to the ones under the bath anyway?