Ruddle

[Anna Kettle]

Does anyone know anything about ruddle? I'm told that it was used as a marker so the farmer could see when a ram had his way with an ewe. In my experience this is done with brightly coloured dyes so I suppose we are talking about the good old days. Is it in anyone's memory?

The internet has failed to answer questions like what is ruddle made from and what colours can it be

The front of my house is pargeted panels which were limewashed in red ochre. Between the panels were (1) black painted bands with the black sometimes thinking that it is red. I'm told that it has been ruddled. Lime reacts with some dyes so could that have changed what I assume is a ... well a ruddy colour ... into a black colour? So what is ruddle made from. A chemist said "Hm red and black - could be cyanide"

(1) and will be again

Anna ~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England |""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs / ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc |____|

01359 230642

[Tony Williams]

Still used around here. The thing the ram wears is now called a raddle, still generally with a red dye, but sometimes blue if there are two rams involved.

The dictionary defines raddle as "plaster with rouge".

[SteveS]

It's more commonly known as reddle or raddle. Hence "raddled". It's red ochre, an oxide of iron. For a literary delight, try reading _The Return of the Native_ by Thomas Hardy, featuring a reddleman called Diggory Venn.

HTH, Steve S

[Set Square]

Sounds like the sort of word used on "Call my Bluff"!

My Oxford Dictionary says: RUDDLE: - red ochre - esp of kind used for marking sheep

OCHRE: - mineral of clay and hydrated ferric oxide, used as a pigment varying from light yellow to brown or red

Sometimes the good old dictionary beats the internet!

HTH.

[Lobster]

Beer, isn't it?! ;-)

[Peter Parry]

You have sheep breeding with your house??!!!!!

[Andy Dingley]

It's "raddle" or "red raddle" in my part of the world.

It's red ochre, a mixture of iron oxides in various states of oxidation and hydration. It's mined in pretty much that state, the only processing being to mill and sieve it.

The colour varies, depending on the oxidation state of the iron and mainly on the level of hydration. Pale ochres range from yellow through to brown, red and finally black. In rare cases you can get purple ochre. By simply cooking a pale ochre you can darken it through the sequence, although not make the purple. Saturation of colours also depends on the particle size.

I use ochre a lot for furniture finishing. You can get a range of colours from Liberon, via Axminster. I buy mine from Clearwell caves though, an ochre mine in the Forest of Dean that dates from Roman and probably earlier times. They're damned expensive, but I like the "local materials" angle and they're also one of the few sources for purple ochre. It's said that the inhabitants of Cinderford still mummify their ancestors in huge ochre-smeared clay badgers and bury them under the family hearth.

For the wet trades, good quality red ochre should be available from any merchant. It's the cheapest stuff around, so it's rarely adulterated. Black pigments though are often some form of lampblack, not a black ochre.

Umbers and siennas are similar, but are a mixture with manganese dioxide, calcium carbonate and clays.

[Ed Sirett]

So why not use the internet dictionary? See "dict.org"

[Set Square]

I was taking OP's statement at face value when she said: [see above]

"The internet has failed to answer questions like what is ruddle made from and what colours can it be"

[Anna Kettle]

Maybe I should restate my question. Ruddle (or raddle, thankyou) is made from iron oxides, but there must be some binder/fixative in it too. Its quite possible that the binder used to mark sheep is semi permanent (though it needs to cope with wet Welsh hills) and someone suggested that grease is used for sheep but the binder I need to paint the house will need to be permanent cos I do not want the colour to streak down my walls

Binder suggestions anyone? The only suggestion the internet came up with is limewash and I'm sure that is not what was used cos I understand limewash and it won't 'carry' enough pigment and also tints the pigment white. My wall was painted black, with hits of red

Anna

~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England |""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs / ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc |____|

01359 230642

[Andy Dingley]

Lanolin - you get it from the sheep.

Rag roll your house with a greasy sheep ?

That's because that's what was used - certainly for harling in Scotland. Ochre is a _very_ powerful pigment and will certainly hold its own in lime mixtures.

[Anna Kettle]

If in doubt ask an expert, so today I went to see Ted Ingilby who knows lots about paint. He says that ruddle on houses was tar followed closely by a paintbrushful of red ochre pigment which sticks to the tar. So I bought a tub of red ochre from him and will experiment as soon as I get to my usual tar supplier

Anna

~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England |""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs / ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc |____|

01359 230642

[Andy Hall]

Where do you otherwise use tar in your work, Anna?

.andy

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[Anna Kettle]

Pah! You pick up on my every lightly scattered word spoken without let or hindrance ... but the truth is that its used for painting house plinths so I do have a 'usual suppllier' who sells it though I've never bought any before cos I don't normally get involved in the painty end of things

Anna

~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England |""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs / ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc |____|

01359 230642

[Andy Hall]

Just natural curiosity, Anna :-)

Plus it intrigues me to understand a bit about some of the traditional crafts and materials especially when the craft is relatively rare.

I guess that I would expect to find about as many people doing pargetting and decorative plasterwork in Yellow Pages as I would thatchers - not something seen every day.

.andy

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[Anna Kettle]

Rarer, by quite a long way. There are several hundred thatchers around but only five freehand pargeters that I know of.

Decorative plasterwork is better represented cos there are the people who do cornices and ceiling roses in gypsum

Anna

~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England |""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs / ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc |____|

01359 230642

[Andy Hall]

Wow. I didn't realise that it was as little as that. Are any new people coming into it? Is this a skill that can be learned by training or apprenticeship or starting from something else, or is it simply a natural flair?

I've certainly seen people doing that for plaster restoration etc. by making wooden moulds to recreate a profile or piece.

.andy

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[N. Thornton]

this is just tar, applied steaming hot?

Regards, NT

[Anna Kettle]

The most recent I know of is Jo Walsh who became her dad's apprentice a couple of years ago. There is no training course in this country and the combination of skills needed is rare - plastering skills plus design/artistic eye. Plus practice of course

In the 'off' season I do that sort of work too.

Anna ~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England |""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs / ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc |____|

01359 230642

[Anna Kettle]

I'm not sure that it has to be steaming hot, just runny. If anyone knows more then please speak up cos I shall be applying it by trial and error

Anna ~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England |""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs / ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc |____|

01359 230642