about spending other people's money. Fascism does have a place I suppose. Up its own chimneys, I'd say but it is a foible of the human species that the most badly oppressed are its most fastidious converts..
With a router one can make one's own out of an old table or cabinet for next to nothing. You do tend to get what you pay for though. A sturdy piece of DIY kit, with no safety switch usually.
d:
There are very few professional tasks that the DIY'er cannot replicate. The purpose of the word 'replicate' is used as, because we do not have the skill level, we cannot do the task in the same timescale. Some, like Andy, choose to spend as much money on tools as the professional (I take it that his pockets are deep enough to do that), but I would doubt that because he is not doing any task day-in day-out that he can do it anywhere near as fast as the professional. Time **is** money to them, it is not to the DIY'er, regardless of what Andy says lower down.
And as for quality - well I worked as a Quality Manager for many years and my duaghter particularly curses the fact that she has inherited an eye for perfection. Quality is what the 'customer' wants at the price he is prepared to pay. What you are talking about is 'workmanship' and that is a different subject. Workmanship comes out of using the tools that you have correctly, not relying on the tool to compensate for the user's lack of skill.
Yes, but where does cost of ownership come when I can pay =A330 for a chop saw that does all that I want it to do in building a 4m * 4m workshop in contrast to paying =A3150 to =A3200 for one with a name. I probably won't have any use for it for a while now so if I had bought an expensive one it would be capital sitting around wasting. After all if it had only lasted this summer and I had to get another when I wanted it then my outlay would be 1/3 of buying a named one. And as for service which you mention somewhere, again referring back to my brother, he bought a professional grade pull saw at considerable expense - the thing has a design flaw and will not retain its settings and the manufacturer dosesn't want to know. Service is my case is that I go and buy a new one - which of all the 'cheap' power tools I have I haven't had to do.
Certainly not in my case - a high level of workmanship I expect, but then I do not cost my time.
I disagree with the latter for DIY - and I agree with the former. 'Foibles' was perhaps not the right word; I suspect in the end I was addressing how much more one has to pay for that final bit of precision.
'Rent' - then time is money.
OK, Andy, we disagree; I do so partly because I believe any money has to work for me and I resent any purchase sitting around not earning it's keep - and then I have found that in contrast to you that cheap tools are not crap, that they are perfectly adequate for most tasks. And then of course workmanship is in the user, his lack of it cannot be compensated for by the tool.=20
Rob
How does one get a long piece of wood past the back guide fence?
And he has the gall to call people stupid.
You are not people, stupid. You are IMM and define the word stupid.
********.The stupid fool clipped the post he quoted so desperately that anyone interested in following the thread might have to guess stupid's thought pattern.
If you set a pull saw to cut channels in a long piece of wood, then you would still be using the fence. Can someone with a gift for working with the retarded help me understand the stupid clot's reasoning?
As with the top&bottom,think before assembly. ;-)
Damn he still cant figure it out. lol
Could you relate your experiences of cheap vs expensive router bits, in a useful level of detail?
cheers, Pete.
No no, backlash is the play between gears and the like.
Not bearings!!!
'My OSR wheel bearing has too much backlash' LOL!!!
cheers, Pete.
Oh come now its, *centrifugal movement*
The message from "The3rd Earl Of Derby" contains these words:
Radial float, Shirley?
No, it's spinwibble...
cheers, Pete.
The first issue is to achieve a good quality result and to have enjoyment from using good quality tools.
The second is that I have much more incentive to do the work to the standard that I set myself than the professional does because I have more skin in the game if it is for my benefit.
Of course time is money to the DIYer. One thing that I certainly don't want to waste time on is tools that don't allow a good job to be done, break and need to be returned, no service availability and so forth.
Time used creatively and productively to get a good DIY job done is a very positive use. Time wasted with poor products is time wasted for no good reason.
Anybody who uses tools regularly realises that they do not compensate for lack of skill. However a good quality tool used well is of great benefit to the user.
For example... sometimes when I am preparing stock I use my combination machine planer and thicknesser. It will do the job quickly and I can prepare timber to an accuracy of a small fraction of a millimetre. Other times, I will take time and use a Lie Nielsen hand plane. I can achieve good results with that as well and it's very enjoyable to do so - takes somewhat longer.
Is that *all* that you will ever do with it?
Do you never intend to make or do anything that will require greater precision and repeatability than can be achieved with a £30 chop saw?
See above.
His contract is with the retailer, not the manufacturer.
He has redress with the retailer and the credit card company.
Therein lies the issue.
You are making the assumption that time is free for DIY purposes. You may not choose to cost your time. I most certainly do. having done that, I can choose how I spend it, but I never forget the value.
That depends on what you consider is acceptable and what you are willing to pay for it. Certainly there are instances where it isn't that important or where other things overshadow it. Your shed example is one where one might say that this is the only job that will ever be done with a cheap chop saw, so I'll buy one and throw it away afterwards. That's not unreasonable, I suppose. However, when the next job is to cut some pieces of hardwood to make a piece of furniture, the perspective is different.
Actually we don't. I also think that money has to work and I certainly don't invest in tools where I expect little use. Equally, I do enjoy using good quality tools and the results that I can get. I think that that's a good investment as well. In comparison to hiring professionals to do the work, it certainly is.
That depends on what the tasks are.
I completely agree.
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