Routers again

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

Benjamin Middlethwaite

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

For the B&D spares

Benjamin Middlethwaite

[david lang]

No only 1/4", but soft start, variable speed 11,000 - 28,000 rpm, 55mm plunge, 1100 watt. Good plunge action, nice to use.

Good buy as a spare at that money - if they have any left.

Dave

[Andy Dingley]

Who cares? They're all wobbly crap, designed to last 5 minutes in the hands of fools like Drivel who wouldn't know a decent router from a corkscrew.

[Andy Dingley]

The Freud has got to be one of the best deals around for a decent router.

But it's still a bit of a heavy old clunker. If you're not planning to use it in a table, then something lighter and handier might be more suitable. It also has a huge hole in the baseplate - one of the first jobs is to make a new clear Perspex baseplate up, with a smaller aperture.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Says made by Trend Machinery and Cutting Tools Ltd. But has a made for B&Q sticker on the box.

[Andy Hall]

Hmm.. curious. I didn't think that they were in the private label business and can't find any other references to this machine other than the collets on the Trend site.

[Andy Hall]

As far as I could find, there are not substantially lighter ones around. Freud is 5.6kg

The DW625, T9, Elu,.... is 5.1kg The Bosch GOF 2000 is 6kg The Bosch GOF 1300 is 4.8kg (but is a 1300W model - bit low) The Hitachi M12SA is 5.2kg The Makita 3612 is 6kg The Metabo OFE1812 is 5.1kg The Festool OF2000 is 5.1kg The Mafell LO65 is 5.5kg

I've used a Makita 3612 a couple of times and can't say that I noticed it to be difficult in use in comparison with the DW625 (even though a kg more). Admittedly I didn't do a side by side trial.

[Andy Dingley]

There are plenty of smaller and lighter routers around. Now admittedly they're of much less power, but how often do you need a really powerful router when it's not to swing a large cutter that needs to be used in a table anyway? Most of the time when I'm using a handheld router, I use one of my 1/4" routers, just for the smaller footprint and lighter weight. About the only handheld task that really _needs_ the rigiditiy of the Freud is trimming kitchen counters - a task which a wee crappy job like a DrivelPro is of course entirely inadequate for.

[John Rumm]

The last time I looked at a PPro 1/2" router its minimum speed was something in the order of 15k rpm. (not saying this has the same problem, but since you seem to be the authority on all things B&Q I thought you might know)

Hence my question about what Dave wanted to do with it. Unless you know that it is impossible to say if it represents good value for money or not. To be good vlaue for money it must first be fit for purpose.

(Say for example he wanted to profile the edges of some cabinet doors using a panel raising cutter set, a 15k rpm router would be of no value whatsoever since it would be way above the safe maximum speed for such a large diameter cutter).

[John Rumm]

So that is a 1/2" router with a reduction then usually. i.e. a fairly big machine.

The bigger ones are at their best in tables. Used freehand they are ok for some jobs, but a right pig to handle for others.

[Andy Hall]

Yes, I agree. However, we had already started down the track of talking about 12.7mm routers (or at least I had), and I was thinking that if one had to pick between that and a smaller one (because of only buying one) then it probably ought to be a 12.7mm machine.

Quite.

For some of the larger moulding bits (not in panel raising size obviously) I tend to prefer the larger router as well, and I have a larger collection of 12.7mm bits than 6.35mm.

The routers only get used hand held these days as I use a special spindle in the spindle moulder which takes router cutters and has both of these sizes in collets. I can also tilt the spindle. As a result, I have one of the Trend router tables (which gave good service for what it is) no longer used.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Since Trend seems to be a reasonable make I've bought it. Worked a treat for the job I'm doing. I've ordered up the spares for the B&D so I'll have a light(er) weight one as well. I must say though on first use the weight isn't a problem and may just help to keep things steady.

[Andy Dingley]

I'd like a spindle moulder (old Wadkin) but don't have space or budget. I did consider a shaper instead, but they all seemed to run far too slow for the sort of "large router" tooling that I'm usually using. If I need anything really big I do it on a commercial neighbour's spindle, my own knives if it's an oddball moulding.

[Andy Dingley]

If he's anywhere near that size of cutter then it's the Freud 2000 router mounted in a table, every time.

[John Rumm]

Agreed, in fact I hardly ever take my Freud out of the table!

(I only recall using once freehand in recent times - and only then because it made it easier to have two routers to hand when making treads and risers for a staircase - one to put the bullnose on the leading edge of the tread, and the other to add the rebate for the riser to the underside).

[Andy Hall]

Always a challenge....

I would have thought that there would be a ready supply of older spindle moulders that don't meet current braking and other safety requirements for industrial use.

I wouldn't have considered one as a stand-alone machine, but as part of the combination machine, it's no extra space. There is always the issue of conversion back and forth, but on mine the spindle moulder hood can be rapidly removed and replaced while retaining settings and the spindle moulder block dropped below table height so that the saw can be used. Even so, a bit of planning of workflow usually makes the number of changes fairly small.

What do you mean by a shaper in this context? A larger machine than a router in a table that uses router tooling? If so, it's surprising that they don't run fast enough.

I was initially concerned with the speed issue on mine, but it turns out that the special spindle has a smaller pulley than the normal 30mm tooling one and with the belt on the largest step of the motor pulley plus the speed control cranked right up, I can get to 20,000 rpm or so. In practice, this seems to be adequate even for smallest cutters as long as I watch the feed rate.

The Americans use the word to describe what we call a spindle moulder. In the machine context it becomes confusing. They refer to what we call a planer as a jointer (i.e. planing flat and square on the top of the machine); and what we call a thicknesser as a planer.

Always useful to have....

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Not really - small compared to most I've looked at yesterday. It's a KW

800 - more like the size of the 1/4" ones made today.

OK. It's not a tool I'd describe myself as an expert with. ;-)

[John Rumm]

I find my T5 (similar sort of power but 1/4" collet) is the one I use for pretty much all handheld stuff - it is the right size and feel - it is also simpler to use on narrower stock without needing to add extra battens etc to balance the weight of the router. Not sure how much use a "big" router would be with only 800W though - it may preclude doing many of the things that you would traditionally choose a 1/2" router for.

Remember also that many 1/4" units will also take an 8mm collet which opens up the range of larger cutters that can be used. The only real downside is less cutting capacity per pass.

Hence if the choice is between a good quality 1/4" machine or moderate quality low power 1/2" unit, I would probably go with the good quality smaller one and get the extra accuracy and rigidity.