Router recommendation

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I'm in the market for a decent router to use for kitchen worktops, and would appreciate suggestions.
Looking at the Trend T9 as a possible option. Before I make a commitment are there any others that I should seriously consider?
PoP
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On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:16:55 +0100, PoP

I have the smaller Trend T5 and am pleased with it.
In the 1/2" size I have a DeWalt DW625EK and get good results with that as well. It gets a lot of use.
I have a feeling that both are possibly an Italian job since most of the accessories are interchangeable between the DW and the Trend T9. There is a CMT model 1850 that is allegedly the same as well.
I've also used but don't have the Makita 3612 and Bosch GOF2000. Both were good, although I preferred the feel of the DW. It could have been familiarity, though.
.andy
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wrote:

Apart from the colour, the CMT1850 is exactly the same as the DeWalt DW625EK - and no better or worse for that. I have the Dewally - it's a fine router. When buying, I also looked at the T9 (which I see in a later post you have actually bought) and the big Bosch. Would now add the newer bigger Bosch and the Triton to my list.
--

Regards.

Nick Pitfield ( snipped-for-privacy@nickpitfield.com)
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A lot is said for the Freud router... which incidentally is the same as the Draper 1/2 in one..
I use a Makita 3612C and a Dewalt 625... Makita seems more powerful.. the Dewalt easier to set up...
Best bet is to decide on your price limit... T9 is roughly far too much for what is actually a black Metabo router.... the Metabo is a better buy IMHO but you pays your money...
I would do this...
up to 200 Freud or Draper.. only 20 sovs between them at our local shop 200 - 300 Metabo OFE1812 250 from Rutland's 300+ you've got too much money..lol or Porter Cable 19.2v cordless router... (which is 299.95..lol ah well )
HTH IanJH
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 02:11:42 +0000 (UTC), "IanJH"

The Trend T9 is on special offer at Rutland presently - 239.95 including carrying case and height adjuster. Includes VAT as well.
PoP
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:15:58 +0100, PoP

And that's what's wrong with the T* series.
My main router is a Fred 2000, which I really like. A large part of this is due to it having a well-thought out height adjuster. I don't have to mess with bolt-ons and it works over the whole plunge depth. Rather a contrast to the Elu 96 and all its derivations.
I just don't understand any router that doesn't have height adjustment as a core part of the design.
-- Smert' spamionam
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PoP wrote:

The Trend is certainly nice - I like my T5. For the half inch I went for the Freud FT2000E in the end. Plenty of power and good fine height adjustment for use in a router table (where it spends most of its life!).
Still at a slight discount at Screwfix:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id 864&ts642
(Wickes do a badge engineered version of the Freud - but they charge more for it than the current Screwfix price!)
--
Cheers,

John.

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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:18:48 +0100, John Rumm

Thanks for that - the price of the Freud is more attractive than the Trend.
I have to admit to having blown 100 quid on a B&Q PPro 2000w router recently:
http://www.diy.com/bq/product/product.jhtml?PRODID 0655&CATIDb251
Gave it some work to do at the end of last week on a kitchen worktop. It can't keep the speed of the router bit up (it is a sharp router bit) even when cutting a thin channel. Doesn't hold the height at all as you pass the router over the workpiece - it tends to pull into the workpiece as you travel along, so the end result is a deeper channel at the end than at the beginning. And after holding the trigger switch in for just a couple of minutes my right hand was hurting bad.
I have no idea where the 2000w is going - but it sure as hell doesn't come out the sharp end!
Absolute pile of shite - don't be tempted!
PoP
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:20:47 +0100, PoP

One would have an expectation that this 2000W router should behave from the power perspective as well as any other.
I'd take it back as not fit for purpose.

This is the second confirmation this weekend that PPro tools are junk for any kind of worthwhile use, DIY or otherwise. Just because something is DIY rated should not mean that it produces variations in cut like this. More difficult set up and lack of smoothness perhaps, but if the tool ends up producing shoddy work, then it's worthless for any application unless of course one doesn't take pride in one's work.
I used to believe the old adage that a poor workman always blames his tools, but in reality this is only partly true.
.andy
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wrote:

Under consideration for sure. Only problem is that it is now in used condition - I forced it to complete the worktop job I was on because I didn't have an alternative. B&Q will probably want to argue the toss as a result.

I come from the same school. In this case I was setting a particular depth of cut so as not to put too much strain on the cutter or router, starting cutting and finding that within a few tens of cm the router had plunged itself deeper. And that was despite having pushed the depth friction lock as far as possible into lock mode. Basically that friction lock is pants.
The only way I could see for this router being kept at the prescribed depth was to use the depth gauge as a stop - the depth gauge is adjusted via a fairly usable height adjustment knob and then locked into position - unlikely to move under pressure IMHO. However that's not the way I expect decent routers to behave. My wish is to have a router that will lock to a precise cutting depth and stay there come what may.
It struggled big time with a half inch worktop cutter, no question about it - if the router is truly 2050w (as in the instructions) then a half inch router bit is going to be a doddle. And when you've got one of these long (50mm) worktop cutters in the collet the damn thing protudes by a good 6mm when retracted, and then doesn't plunge to the full depth of the cutter! It only just cleared the depth of the worktop at full depth. Now that definitely isn't the specification that was sold.
I'm totally unimpressed by this PPro router. I had an ELU previously, a decent piece of kit by anyones standards.
As I said before - pile of shite, do not be tempted!
PoP
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PoP wrote:

Just be nice to them, you don't need to get into any long drawn out argument "I'd like to return this" = "How would you like your refund?" It is most unlikely they will even ask what's wrong with it. Your reasons are valid and unrefutable.
--
Toby.

'One day son, all this will be finished'
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wrote:

I have just drafted the letter, I will be taking the router back to B&Q tomorrow. I've listed all the things I found wrong, including the following gems. Router as described here:
http://www.diy.com/bq/product/product.jhtml?PRODID 0655&CATIDb251
The published specification on the B&Q web site states that the router has a plunge depth of 60mm. Can't argue with that description.
The same specification states that the router has an integral dust extraction facility. Can't argue with those words either.
Except that with the integral dust extraction facility (it is secured with screws) the plunge depth is 35mm, and that's measuring the collet depth without a bit inserted (so it has sod all to do with any router bit). Absolutely frigging impossible to go any deeper than 40mm no matter how much you squint at the measuring ruler.
If you take the dust extraction facility off then maybe, just maybe, the router would go somewhere near 60mm. Haven't tried, because the advert says 60mm and dust extraction, not exclusive one or the other. Plus routing dust could be carciogenic, I can't imagine B&Q would be promoting the idea of not using dust extraction facilities.
And if you put a 50mm x 1/2inch worktop bit in at the correct depth (with the cutting surfaces at least a couple of mm away from the collet) then the bit protudes by several mm even with the router retracted - the only way I could get the 50mm bit into the router without it protuding from the routing table would be to grip the bit in the collet by its cutting surfaces. This in my view makes the router somewhat dangerous in so far that the only way of entering the workpiece is to rotate in at an angle. Now with jigsaws that might be an acceptable practice, but with a router I expect (providing the bit is suitable for this) to plunge in vertically.
Pile of pooh. Don't touch the PPro 2050W router with a bargepole. Its performance wouldn't give a 500W cheap router a run for the money.
PoP
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:10:30 +0100, PoP

Be careful not to mention trade use (if you are doing some of that). Some consumer law does not apply.
In a lot of ways saying less is better. I wouldn't lead with you letter, but keep it back unless needed.
I assume that you mainly just want a refund rather than telling B&Q that their own brand tools are junk?
.andy
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wrote:

Took the router back this morning, full refund issued no problem. I described the problems (multiple) with the chap from the hardware section and he had no problem agreeing to the refund.
B&Q went up a notch in my estimation this morning. I was expecting a bit of a ding-dong with them because the router was taken back in slightly used condition.
Well done B&Q!
Now to read thru those other recommendations that folks here have made.....
PoP
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wrote:

Although one does wonder what "Pro" means in this context 8-) -- Smert' spamionam
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:19:12 +0100, Andy Dingley

Actually I checked the user manual that came with the router ("manual" is a bit of a misnomer - a few sides of A5-sized instructions was all). It stated that the router could be used in light industrial settings, but wasn't considered to be suitable for heavy duty daily use. That described my use pretty accurately.
Except that these instructions should have said words to the effect "do not use this router - it is only intended to be an ornament for your workshop - if you intend to use it then forget it".
I dare say that there are people buying these routers who put them to one side for a period of time before using them, and find out too late to take it back for a refund. It is possibly the sort of thing that hubby adds to his list for a Christmas present from SWMBO. Fortunately I was within a month of acquisition as I had "upgraded" to that router for the specific job which caused me to doubt its capabilities.
Don't get me wrong about PPro - I've bought other tools in that range which I don't consider a bad buy, for the job in hand they were reasonable purchases. This router sucked big time though, and I'm not referring to its dust extraction facilities (which were pretty good for what it's worth ;)).
PoP
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:04:21 +0100, PoP

I regularly take things back to B&Q that are excess to requirements - I usually buy more materials than I need for a job to avoid the waste of time of a repeat visit. e.g. I needed some mastic to do some improvement panelling work to the garage doors. The manufacturer's usage rate suggested that 4 tubes would be needed. I bought 8, used 6 and returned 2.
I just keep an eye on the receipt dates and put excess materials in the car in case I'm passing a B&Q when out and about.
Regarding duds I have never had any problem at all with B&Q, even when a product has been used. Don't be afraid that you have - otherwise how would you know that the product didn't do a proper job. The faults that you describe are almost certainly inherent in the product rather than a defect in your particular one.
I have had to educate customer service people in Focus and Homebase about consumer law and avoid these companies unless it's for something simple.
.andy
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wrote:

Yeah, and I used to as well, however I am not claiming to be a good workman, just the best one I can be at any given moment. In recent times, I've actually often blamed the designer or the maker depending on who seems to fit the bill best, according to the fault I'm noticing at the time!
I used a brand new ratchet wrench today, and I ended up blaming the accountant at the makers, since it was probably pressure from them which lead to a springy bit of swarf being used as a retainer instead of the proper circlip which, had it been used (as the designer had quite obviously intended), would not have required me to mend/replace the damn thing with the passing of each bolt it was used to tighten!
You can take corner cutting just a bit too far sometimes, and this was one of them! I bet they are not saving more than a hapenny per thousand units frankly - it's just nuts - the quality of the chrome on the other hand is just a little over the top for such a cheap set, it's seriously good! Probably a fair bit stronger than the metal it's applied to as well! ;O)
Take Care, Gnube {too thick for linux}
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wrote:

Problem is that a few years ago there was fat on the bone which could be trimmed in most industries, but today that fat is gone and they are into applying the chainsaw to the bone as a means to save a few extra bucks.
Personally I'd prefer that they focussed on the packaging when you buy tools or other goods - I really don't have any further use for the bubble encapsulated screwdriver once I get it home.
PoP
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:09:39 +0100, PoP

I hate this packaging but it probably is a necessity for retailers for a number of reasons - including stopping b***ds nicking things from sets of stuff.
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