Rough ceilings and artex...

[Tim S]

Warning - I'm going say highly unfashionable things:

Having stripped some ceilings, I need a plan on making them look good again.

Skimming with plaster is out of the question (no money to get it done, and I'm sure I can't manage to DIY it; walls yes, ceiling no).

I don't want to paper it again as it's also a fiddly job upside down and it'll fall off anyway in the kitchen, with the steam from cooking.

So that last logical course of action is artex, with a weak texture, like "broken leather", which is reasonably inoffensive, and paints and cleans well.

But, before I go and order a load of bags, is there anything else I might consider? eg is "artex" basically one product, or are there loads of makes and types of similar stuff, but some are better than others? I basically want "whipped cream" that "sticks like sh*t" and stays that way forever.

I assume it's best to PVA first, if the substrate has flaky bits?

Cheers

Tim

[boltmail]

Can't you whack up taper-edged plasterboard, tape, fill and sand, instead?

[Tim S]

[e-mail] coughed up some electrons that declared:

No - too much work[1] - also been done once already a couple of decades back. I'm happy with an "artex" type texture: I don't care about fashion - just seeing if it's all the same or if a particular product is better than the others - never done "artex" before.

[1] Already got too much to do ;->

Cheers

Tim

[Stuart Noble]

Skimming a ceiling that's already fairly flat is actually pretty easy if you use Artex instead of plaster. Very forgiving stuff that you can trowel and re-trowel for as long as you need. Working overhead is exhausting though

[Tim S]

Stuart Noble coughed up some electrons that declared:

Hmm - that's an angle I hadn't considered. After all, the ceiling is flat and I don't need a hard mirror finish as it will be painted. It's just too rough to paint right now due to infinite filled and patched area.

Cheers

Tim

[ARWadsworth]

Have a look at Polycell SmoothOver

Adam

>

[Tim S]

ARWadsworth coughed up some electrons that declared:

I just did - that looks very interesting. Have you used it before Adam?

If it sticks well, and is stable, that could be just the job. I could use it on the walls too instead of lining paper. In most places the plasters sound - but as rough as a hedgehog's arse.

Cheers

Tim

[ARWadsworth]

I have not used it but friends of mine have. I will take some pictures of the finished surface if you want. It did take a bit of time to sand down.

Adam

[Stuart Noble]

IME you really can't get a smooth finish without a trowel of some kind, and the "SmartSmoother" seems to be just another version of that. A standard plastering trowel is the same thing with a handle for ease of use. Why complicate things?

[Tim S]

Stuart Noble coughed up some electrons that declared:

Well... I don't know.

I've just watched some videos on plaster skimming and it looks straightforward. I'm the sort of person who learns by watching, not reading (other than numeric data like mixing ratios and specs).

Daughter's new room in the old kitchen is completely knackered and *must* be skimmed, so I might as well have a go on that - the walls are fairly small, basically flat; looks like 1/4 to 1/2 bucket per wall to me. And I won't feel bad hacking it off for another go if it goes wrong.

Still dubious about trying a ceiling though - brushing on a bit of artex and squidging it around seems more withing my capabilities.

If it goes well, I might consider skimming more walls. If not, the Polycell product looks OK, but it's more expensive at 3 quid/m2 (estimates on plaster suggest light plaster skimming is in the order of 30-50p per m2 of material costs and textured lining paper about 1 quid/m2).

Nothing to do now but have a go. Will report back in a couple of weeks or so.

Cheers

Tim

[Tim S]

Quick stupid question:

If sealing powdery and/or flaky painted walls (but basically sound having removed most of the offending loose bits) with PVA, should finish plaster be applied:

a) Whilst the PVA is tacky;

or

b) When it's dried?

Ta

Tim

[tony sayer]

Just do it!.. Its not rocket science at all .. just let the plaster know that YOU are in charge of it, and not the other way around;))..

Best tip is to get a good labourer .. one who can mix, clear up, wash your tools and make tea;))

Jobs a good 'un:))....

[Andrew Gabriel]

Both -- the PVA is performing two or three roles.

Firstly, it is stabalising the surface. For this, you dilute it something like 1:5 with water, so it soaks into the surface and binds it all together. You wait for this to dry.

Second, it's gluing the plaster to the wall -- finish coat doesn't have much in the way of bonding about it, and if the underlaying coat isn't something which the fine plaster will soak into, then you'll need a glue to stick it on. For this, use PVA diluted 1:3 with water, and plaster onto it whilst still tacky. (It will probably have dried by the time you finish getting the plaster on, but that doesn't matter as the moisture in the plaster will wet it enough to be tacky again.)

Thirdly, the PVA coats stop the underlaying layer sucking too much water out of the plaster before it gets a chance to set.

Sometimes, I just do one PVA coat rather than the two.

[Tim S]

Andrew Gabriel coughed up some electrons that declared:

Cool - thanks Andrew - very precise instructions :)

Cheers

Tim

PS

One of the plastering vids on the internet showed the bloke rollering the PVA on. Wasn't clear whether he left it to dry though.

[Stuart Noble]

As a beginner, you can make the whole job much easier by using Artex powder (or Gyproc joint filler) instead of plaster. I still find plaster on a ceiling difficult to work with because I'm not fast enough, and spend most of the time stopping it falling on the floor. I've finally graduated to plaster on walls though :-)

[Mark]

But first have a google to see if you can find anyone that has had success using it and would recommend it.

I.e.

[John Rumm]

To be fair, the first thing I ever skimmed was a ceiling, and it was not that hard - at least to get a finish that looked better than artex.

[John Rumm]

Covering artex is what plasterers refer to as a "glue and set" IIUC. Basically roller on a coat of dilute PVA, and then plaster while it is still wet.

Only if it badly needs stabilising first and you need to PVA twice.

[Stuart Noble]

IME PVA serves no purpose other than to seal a porous surface. Plaster sticks pretty well to Artex, as it does to plastic buckets and other seemingly unsuitable surfaces.

[Tim S]

Stuart Noble coughed up some electrons that declared:

Might be getting a bit of the old chinese whispers here: I'm not covering artex - I'm looking to flatten damaged and part-painted walls and ceiling using either plaster or artex (unfashionable I know!)

But the advice is useful - ta. Just didn't want you all wasting time helping me to cover up lumpy artex, as I don't actually have any :)

Given the state of the walls (bare plaster, some painted and sound and some painted and flaky) a good dose of PVA as a stabiliser for the powdery and flaky bits seems in order - as that's about half the wall, I guess I might as well just splat it on everywhere for good measure.

Cheers

Tim