I have cleared brambles, rhodedendrons and general crap from a steeply sloping piece of ground. The area varies between 12ft and 6ft wide and is about 200ft long, with a tarmac driveway at the bottom and some trees and bushes at the top. It's very steep (varying between 3:1and
1:1). I intend to grass the area with some slow growing grass, hoping that I can get away with strimming it once a year or so.
After clearing it (took 3 solid days), I watered in some Ammonium Sulphamate weedkiller that I happened to aquire and when that's broken down I want to dig it over to get some of the old roots out prior to seeding. But I can't face doing it by hand - I can't even get a spade to penetrate the surface as there are so many roots entwined together.
I have never used a rotavator so I don't know if it will be possible to operate one on such a steep piece of land. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Fence it and get a couple of goats. You could have saved the effort clearing it by running a pair of weaner pigs in there up to porker weight, and enjoyed the roasts and sausages.
can't re-seed for 3 - 4 months, until the weedkiller has broken down.
There's various types of rotovators - but most types are better at 'digging' than 'removing roots'.
In my experience, the most heavyweight rotovators (with powered drive wheels) are also the most effective at breaking up fresh ground - but I don't think I'd want to use them on anything more than a 1 in 3 slope.. - and they're not really designed to chop up rhodo roots..
If it was flatter, you might be able to get a 'proper' tractor in to plough the land, but if you really do have sections at 45-degrees then I'm not sure you'd be able to convince the driver to risk his neck!
Sorry I don't have any magic solutions - but I wouldn't think 'rotovator' is the answer...
You might find a man with a caterpillar-treaded digger could do something for you ??
I've used a light 4 tine petrol one before. Not very heavy (but will only cultivate to about 4-6" deep) so it's probably possible, but obviously, you want to work any way except downhill from it (in case it falls back onto your toes!). Steel toe caps would be a good idea, particularly in this case.
I'd start by working it along the contour lines, ie on the flat going crossways across your slope, perhaps driving it ever so slightly uphill so its natural forward traction balances the tendency to slip down the slope.
I don't think there's anything legal that would have any effect whatsoever on this lot! It's a ridiculous situation that one of the most effective and safe garden chemicals has become illegal for the sake of bureaucracy!
The answer here is very simple: dont! If you do, you'll have very unstable land, and come the first hard rain, a huge mess at the bottom. You're fortunate there are still plenty of roots holding it all together.
What you plant needs to have deep enough roots to hold it all in place, grass is quite unsuitable. Bushes or trees have bigger roots. I'd probably pick bushes that give lots of food, a good mixture including nitrogen fixers and deep rooters.
I think it's going to be tricky to get anything like a tracked vehicle in there - it's very overgrown at the top and, unless it's a monster digger, it's not going to have the reach to get to the top!
So.... I'm not looking for a perfect "lawn" effect - I just want it to be tidy. Before I cleared it, it was a horrible 4ft high mess of Brambles, Bracken, Stinging Nettles, Rhodedendrons, Gorse, and a load of stuff I could not identify! If I was just to throw some seeds down in September, would it grow? Without too many weeds coming through?
Rotovators can be used on steep land, but only in the vertical direction. Unless your slope is terraced, it would be far too hazardous to try and use one horizontally on such a slope.
I've never needed to rotavate a slope. However I have fitted my Allen scythe (powered sickle-bar mower that can drive straight through brambles) with a safety lanyard that cuts the ignition if it topples down a bank. Before this, Dad once dropped it down the ditch and we had to sit and watch it gnashing away at us until it ran out of petrol.
As a general principle for rotovators, there are two sorts: Real ones and the typical ones, even from hire shops. These are a light engine, light tines and usually free-wheeling wheels. Smaller ones have a fixed leg, larger ones might have driven wheels. These are all pretty much useless. They're too light, so instead of digging into the ground they simply climb upwards and out. It's as much work to hold them down as it is to just use a spade.
A real rotovator is something like a Howard Gem (or even better, a Howard Dragon). These are heavy and have powered wheels of 18" or so diameter, so that they have decent traction. Their weight is enough to hold them down in the soil. Rotavator width is about 2', but up to 3' for some (light soils) or narrow 18" or 12" models for use in weed control between rows, rather than initial preparation.
A machine like this is wonderful. They're worth hiring (try real market gardeners etc.) or even buying for preparing a new site and re- selling afterwards. Allotment co-ops should certainly think about owning one.
I think you need a mattock for the roots, and some cheap labour. Also try Axminster for a "hori hori" or their root-cutting sickle-saw (the business for brambles). A flame gun is handy too - if you take the top back to black soil, you'll see the new brambles coming back and can see where to dig them out.
I hope you haven't cut the main stump of the rhodies away from the roots, because that makes it much more difficult to attach a chain or winch cable. In clearing rhodies it is very handy to have a decent sized tree nearby to act as your anchor point. Then, if you have one, you winch the whole root system out of the ground, and cut it up afterwards. The pulling up of the roots 'rotavates' the ground for you.
Without a winch - or winches - (hand ones are quite cheap), but still relying on a decent tree as an anchor point, a good thick - or suitably doubled/trebled up nylon rope -, can be looped beltwise under the root centre and around the tree. Then a decent fence post or similar is used to wind it up as a tourniquet (bang something into the ground to act as an arrestor for the winding post - or have it long enough to reach the ground, so that it doesn't spin back at you when you want to stop). I used this method to pull juniper, lawsonia, berberis, bramble and other bushes out of a slope that is as steep as yours and had originally been terraced, but the roots of these (particularly the berberis - and Yucca!), had destroyed the terrace walls, and I still haven't decided how to redo them on such a steep slope. The anchor tree is an old pear tree about 2ft thick, and I pulled out bushes up to 20ft away from it with relative ease. (Iv'e also used tourniquets like this to pull a fence back together after cars had knocked an end post over and bent all the brackets.)
A third satisfying way, for the roots where you don't have a handy anchor point: Loop a piece of chain (For years I used a motorbike anti theft chain and padlock) under your root ball, leaving just enough slack to poke a heavy fence post through. Poke it nearly all the way through so that the long end is resting on the ground - preferably flat so that you can add bricks bit by bit to increase your lift. Under the *short* end place, ideally a bottle jack, but the scissor one out of the car will do at a pinch. Stand it on the business end of a garden spade or it will wind itself into the ground. Pump the jack up to the short end of the fence post, and keep going. It is very satisfying to see how stumps you would have taken days to dig out, can be quite simply pumped out of the ground. You just have to keep adding more 'spacer bricks' under each end of the lever post until the stump is loose enough to pull the rest of the way by hand or with the tourniquet. For less firmly embedded stumps it is sometimes enough to just push the fence post through the chain and lever them out of the ground from the long end - again with bricks under the short end as you get higher: it is more easy to break the post this way though.
(I've also used ordinary jacks and fence posts to move a full garden shed back about a yard. Very handy things!)
Obviously, a powered winch would be quickest, but you might not find it as controllable as these other methods have proven to be.
The weeds can be removed with a selective weedkiller. 2-4-D is commonly used on lawns but for brambles and other woody weeds you need Grazon-90 or similar and deep pockets. Don't don't use on new sown grass and don't compost trimmings as the active chemical is fairly persistent.
I'd hate to be anywhere near a Howard Gem on a 1 to 1 slope. It probably wouldn't do the engine much good if you have the old single cylinder side valve 4 stroke version as it was an oil sump unit. We had one when I was a lad and it was a heavy and awkward brute, completely unforgiving but very powerful. Ideal for flat work when it came into its own on long straight runs
I think I've got most of the bigger roots out. The plants that were covering the ground were very patchy - there were areas of rhodies where the soil is now quite loose, but there are other areas that were covered in thick mats of some type of creeper entwined with brambles - this is really the bit that I want to rotovate, as I can't really make a dent in the matting. I've tried using a saw, which does work, but it's very hard work and the saw will be blunt in no time!
can you burn the creeprs etc off - presume they are currently dying from the ahem, weedkilla... end of summer nice and dry, spot of diesel/ paraffin etc?
I think I've got most of the bigger roots out. The plants that were covering the ground were very patchy - there were areas of rhodies where the soil is now quite loose, but there are other areas that were covered in thick mats of some type of creeper entwined with brambles - this is really the bit that I want to rotovate, as I can't really make a dent in the matting. I've tried using a saw, which does work, but it's very hard work and the saw will be blunt in no time!
Do you have a picture, or any idea what the 'creeper' is? There are some things: eg Japanese Knotweed; Russian Vine, that you really don't want to break up with a rotorvator, as every little bit will form a new plant and, as notifiable invasives, you really need to kill them properly and burn them.
You may find it better to pull the brambles out as above, then wait for the 'creeper' to green up before hitting it with Roundup and covering it with a tarp. If it's some ground cover plant like periwinkle (Vinca) you should find that if you just go over the patch with a fork - stick in; stand on; waggle around; repeat, a bit at a time, you break up the soil gradually and can pick the whole patch out in one go once its all loose. Chop it up and you may be in trouble.
It may all seem a lot of work, but compared with some other jobs you can make a big difference under your own steam much more quickly than you think!
I must be missing something here. 1:1 is indeed one foot up for one foot along, but surely that is 45 degrees. 90 degrees would be 1:0, or is my brain still asleep?
Nope 1:1 or 1 in 1 is 1 up 1 along = 45 degrees. Personally I wouldn't want to have anything powered/mechanical on a slope that steep. Work from the bottom or maybe the top with a digger with enough reach.
Also what has been briefly mentioned I wonder how stable it will be after the roots holding it together have been removed. Even if it doesn't slip enmasse I suspect a decent rain storm will wash a significant amount to the bottom...
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