Not sure if this is the best group but does anyone know a UK dealer for the above - they are at
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I remember them, or something very similar, in Do-It-All, yes before it became Focus DIY, back in the late
90's but didn't have a use for one then. Now that I need one none of the DIY chains seem to have them and google doesn't seem to list any UK sites selling them.
I guess various pulley and rope or ratchet straps are out there but none will do what this seems able to do.
Looks interesting - never seen one like that! Sorry, I've no idea where to get one.
What do you want to use it for? Whereas it looks easy to use, you can only get as much tension in the rope as you can generate with a direct pull - which may or may not be enough. On the other hand, the more common web strap ratchets use a high lever ratio, so you can wind in much more tension.
It looks exactly like the ratchet block my daughter has on her sailing dinghy (except for the big hook at the top) - maybe you need to be looking in the sailing area?
Jay Hendry wrote in news:Xns9959CE5DC8FE8jlhendry99hotmailcom@194.117.143.37:
OK cheers for the ideas - I'm not looking to use it to tie something down but to hoist some furniture through a loft hatch. Now the hatch is not much bigger than the wardrobe, that I've "been told" must go up there so I figured if I get this attached above the hatch I can pull on the rope and push up from underneath on the ladder and if I need to take a break then the ratchet will lock it out.
I'll take a look at an online chandlers in the meantime.
Sailing dinghy ratchets are a bit different - the roperatchet looks like it is designed to lock off and hold a load(though i don't know that I'd want to rely on it), a sailing dinghy ratchet block is designed for a temporary hold only, even if combined with a cleat:
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should not use it in any application where it is critical that the load remains locked off.
It all depends on what the OP wants to use it for - if it's not critical that the load remains locked off then you could use this form of block and cleat combined with a hook:
I would not rely on a sailing dinghy ratchet and cleat if I was standing underneath the load as you describe. With one person using the rope and one person guiding the wardrobe then maybe, but not if anyone is going to be below the load.
Personally I'd look to hire a chain hoist or similar from your local hire shop, along with properly rated strops.
A Petzl Ascender would do the job, eg eBay 120133093026. There's a few used ones listed on ebay, you'd probably get one for a tenner. They're built to hang people off, and very widely trusted to do that, so you know the quality's there.
For the same job, I just use a pulley and a rope. The pulley is attached to a rigid plate which itself is U shaped, with a bolt passing through the top of the U and a roof beam. Remember it has to take a little more than double the weight you are lifting, plus shock loading. It takes the weight of the item, plus your own weight pulling down on the rope.
The message from "Steve Walker" contains these words:
I don't think an ascender would suit. They are just the modern equivalent of the old fashioned prusik loop and, like the prusik loop, you need to take the load off in order to move up the rope.
The roperatchet is a Merkin product and won't necessarily have an importer in the UK.
I have an old ratchet operated puller that I have used as a car engine hoist but I can't find the instructions and after 20 years or more that might not still be available. The label is uninformative with no note of the manufacturer. It was apparently called a Mini Hand Puller but an internet search didn't find that particular product.
In the situation described by the OP the puller would have to be operated from above.
What would also work would be my even more ancient pulley hoist which would need to be tied off in order to take a break. The other disadvantage of that is because of the 6/1 ratio you can't actually lift anything very far without supporting the load and reducing the connecting rope. The puller OTOH, even if used with the wire doubled to give a 2/1 lifting ratio has more than sufficient wire to lift through one storey.
As I understood the OP's request, he wanted a one-way pulley - something which would take and hold the strain. An ascender would fulfill that perfectly, if deployed correctly, and is widely used to protect both load-hauling and humans during cave/mountain exploration. The conventional technique would be to run the rope through a karabiner or pulley, and attach the ascender to the "pull" side, so that it provides a ratchet effect.
I suspect you'll need to think of this as an 'upside down' location, for that to make any sense at all. The key point is that you don't have to relieve the load - it self-adjusts as the free end of the rope is pulled through it. Quite hard to describe, and I can't see a photo on google unfortunately.
If you do use one of these mis-begotten pieces of crap, then use a NYLON rope through it, with a bit of stretch to it. Cheap polyester or polypropylene has too little elasticity in it. Get the slightest flex in your load or chassis points over a bump and a simple ratchet like this goes loose instantly, dropping your load off onto the road. A traditional rope hitch has much more elasticity to it, even tied in inelastic rope, so it's lless prone to this kind of loosening.
=================================== A 'Haltrac engine hoist' would probably suit your purpose but you would almost certainly have to buy one second-hand (Ebay?). It would certainly take the weight of a small wardrobe and it does lock. It uses nylon cord so can be extended to give greater lift.
The easiest solution would be a builder's gin wheel but you would need to tie off the rope from below possibly to a bannister or a piece of 3" x 2" timber in a door frame.
I would suggest that you check the strength of your roof timbers if you intend using them as an anchor point for your hoist. As far as I know roof timbers are not intended to take any great strain such as attaching a hoist.
Yeah, an ascender is designed for exactly that function, and will definitely work.
But... I did the same thing recently (with an unassembled 60kg snooker table only a few inches smaller than the hatch opening) and found it easiest to use a hand-cranked winch (eg ebay 130127601753).
I temporarily fixed a length of 4x2 across 4 joists to spread the load above the hatch - needs to be as high as possible, if you want to lift tall loads right through the opening. Also consider removing the loft ladder. It was then really easy to lift the box in tiny increments, whilst various family members guided it from beneath.
The message from "Steve Walker" contains these words:
If I understand you correctly that would work but what would you tie it off to? You need a secure belay and houses typically don't have suitable threads low down in the vicinity of the loft hatch. I wouldn't want to trust a balustrade in such circumstances. The roperachet works at the suspension point, not at ground level.
Heh, we're rapidly discovering the limits of textual discourse.... :o)
The ascender *is* located at the suspension point. Have a look at ebay
120133093026 for an example, and relate the following rig to the orientation of that picture.
1 - Pull down the spring cam and slip a rope into the open sleeve on the left.
2 - Clip a karabiner through the pair of holes at the top, keeping the rope to the left of the 'bar' this creates.
3 - Clip another karabiner to the suspension point, preferably with a pulley
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- Run the load rope through the suspension karabiner or pulley, with the ascender below.
5 - Clip the first karabiner (step 2) into the second karabiner.
Hopefully you can now see in your mental picture that a ratchet effect is created. Hauling on the free end of the rope will pull it through the ascender easily, as the cam opens in that direction. When you stop hauling, the load weight is held by the ascender as it won't allow the rope to pass in the reverse direction.
One of the drawbacks to this system is that there's about 3-6" of free play, as the metal components bunch together and stretch out under different load states. Minimising that work-wasting free play is the subject of many pub debates and climbing wall experiments.
The message from "Steve Walker" contains these words:
I take your word for it that it works OK. The mental picture wouldn't gel. I had to sketch it out to see what it entailed. [Old age dimming the little grey cells. :-)]
One thing no one appears to have touched on is what happens should the object being lifted jam on the way through the hatch. Unless there is already someone else in the loft the situation would appear terminal as there is no way to release the ascender (or for that matter the rope ratchet that sparked this thread).
With someone already in the loft why use an indirect method that doesn't have the advantage of magnifying the pulling force? If the object is light enough to be lifted with a direct pull then a waist belay (capstan effect round the waist) should give sufficient braking effect to rest the arms while providing a position in which to lift from above and, if terminal tiredness does intervene, allow a controlled return to square one. (Leather gloves might be advisable).
That occurred to me too, but I didn't get round to commenting on it.
Another thing is that if it's a tall wardrobe and if it only just goes through the hatch, they'll need a *lot* of headroom immediately above the hatch - because they probably won't be able to lean it over to miss the roof timbers.
When i had to get a large galvanized iron water tank out of my loft I looked at all sorts of options with rope and pulleys from above and below. All failed the test of 'would I want to stand under this precariously supported heavy thing'. In the end a borrowed chain hoist was used, and was both controllable and safe (I had a fortunately positioned and strong roof joist over the hatch).
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