Riverside Cottage

[Tim Lamb]

As an antidote to the Brexit discussion I intend to beg comment on a series of queries related to an about to start extension/major refurb. of an existing timber frame chalet bungalow.

Not having Tim Ws stamina the bulk of the structural/roofing work will be done by a local building company.

Q1. The existing windows are narrow spacing double glazed in brown painted pine. Two or three panels are blown and need renewing anyway. My first thought was to strip out the glass and strip off the paint. Re-paint in white and fit modern argon filled panels. However, the glazing rebate is much too narrow to use 4:16:4 units.

Six new windows are required for the alterations so current thinking is to go for new throughout. First estimate for 12 windows and two doors came in at 18K fitted. This afternoon was spent trawling round the local showrooms. I'm not much wiser:-( The much vaunted narrow mullion aluminium does not seem to exist. By the time they have put in the plastic thermal break and endless folds for strength and appearance they are as fat as uPVC.

Also, what happened to window hinges and stays? They all seem to use a fancy sliding meccano mechanism which relies on a tiny strip of plastic in a groove to retain the window against a stiff breeze.

And why do doors supplied by such outlets have such flimsy threshold strips?

Also, also my wife who is somewhat challenged vertically came back from a jaunt to the Cotswolds determined that fanlights are out! (hard to clean and hard to reach). The new *in* is top hung bottom latched full length openers.

Thoughts please. Does uPVC really stay clean and shiny for 20 years?

Are these fancy sliding fixings reliable?

Can a bottom opening style meet the fire escape regulations.

[Tim Watts]

:)

Actually - if you can afford and get good people, subcontract. It gets depressing as it drags out.

Our slowness was due to lack of dosh. That problem has reduced and I have happily got some help on certain areas, whilst being lucky enough to maintain the original design ideas.

If you look at windowsanddoors.co.uk you will get an idea of the cost of the units - at least for uPVC

I know what you mean. Not as bad as they look - and hinge bolts mitigate. I recommend you specify egress (corner swinging) hinges - they always seem to default to "easy clean" which I hate.

You can get uPVC with a low profile ali threshold - I have one. And you can bond or seal that down whereby it is pretty solid.

Yes, IME.

Pass.

Why not go for full height casement with egress hinges? (and egress hinges often have an "easy clean" mode).

[Jim White]

[snip]

Have a look for an approved fabricator for Schuco or Reynaers systems. IIRC they both offer slim sections.

Top hung should be fine, but may require restrictors to combat the danger of a fall hazard. Have you considered tilt and turn?

Friction stays on higher end systems are better engineered. I agree many resemble meccano, and appear flimsy.

Personally, I detest uPVC. It creaks and groans in hot weather, and whilst staying white, the gloss does degrade. Good aluminium is robust, and you have the options of a huge range of powder coat colours if required.

HTH

[Brian Gaff]

Sounds bloody expensive to me whatever sort you get. No wonder there are so many door to door sellers of double glazing. Brian

[Muddymike]

Clean and white Yes. Shiny No.

Mike

[Capitol]

Well, all my cheapy opening PVC windows are top hung and bottom latched. We have had one hinge failure in >35 years on a big 3.5H x 4W ft unit. This cost £35 to have replaced. The finish is still excellent even on the South facing units, which get full sun in summer. They are easier to meet fire escape regulations with as the access is so good. However, the opening mechanism must be childproofed to stop them committing suicide when they fall out which they try to do regularly. The locking mechanism is very flimsy, but the favoured tool for breaking in is a blow lamp, so that doesn't really come into it. Make sure the glass is fitted from the inside, this is easier to fit and more secure.

[Dave W]

I too detest uPVC, because it makes old houses look like dolls houses. I am very pleased with the aluminium double-glazing I've had in my 1901 terraced house for 25 years - it is unobtrusive.

Another thing I was careful to avoid is non-flat glass, which I often see. It doesn't affect the view through it, but the reflections off it make it look like plastic windows on a dolls house!

[News]

In message , Dave W writes

Tangent alert! Our windows are all still original Victorian sash, and many panes (with flaws) are probably original, too. One bedroom window, at the front, is odd. Traditional sash, with four panes of glass, yet one of the four always looks as though it is not there, from outside. It just looks dark, and you would think the whole pane was missing. Looking out, from the bedroom, it looks exactly like the other three. No idea why.

[Tim Streater]

Only if you take the standard profile as sold by the likes of Anglian. Choose the ovolo profile and get equal sightlines. Costs a small amount more but - from the inside at least - does not then look like uPVC double-glazing.

[Dave W]

Interesting. Perhaps it has a non-reflective coating on it, sometimes used on swish buildings and picture frames.

[News]

In message , Dave W writes

Possible, I suppose, but why? Why would anyone use anything but plain, ordinary domestic glass? I don't know. First time I noticed it from outside, I ran upstairs, thinking the pane had been broken, convinced I would find a golf ball or similar in the bedroom.

[Bob Eager]

They got it free?

The guy who owned the house before us was an electrician for Network Rail/ British Rail. Our conservatory is floored with offcuts from Victoria Station.

[Tim Lamb]

In message , Jim White writes

Trawling the showrooms has failed to find any slim aluminium windows on display.

The 18K quote was Schuco.

The response has been encouraging regarding hinging and friction stays. I take the points about restrictors as we have visiting grandchildren.

I think we will pursue the aluminium solution and ditch any idea of reusing the existing timber units.

[harry]

Timber frame buildings in poor condition are generally uneconomic to repair. You can guarantee other defect will be uncovered as work progresses. You should demolish it and rebuild. Opportunity to make money if you are the owner. Lots of money if the plot is in a good position. Also you can include any special needs/wants in the design.

[tabbypurr]

Why replace the existing windows? Just fix them like for like if they're misting.

the gloss goes & it becomes somewhat uncleanable. If facing onto a street there's also a slight risk of cigarette burns. I'd plan on a set of windows staying for a lot longer than 20 years!

With new PVC I'd go for external glazing. The advantage is that when the sealed unit seals fail (not if), they don't mist up & don't need replacing.

Have you considered new durable species timber windows to match the existing? (but with deeper whatsits.)

If you go for ali windows, beware of colour finishes such as powder coating. Nothing sticks well to ali, lumps come off in time. They only reliable way to colour ali is anodisation.

NT

[Tim Lamb]

In message , harry writes

You are reading my wife's song sheet!

22 years old, modern, brick clad.

This is a greenbelt house built after a long struggle with local planning. It has an agricultural use restraint so not being re-developed for commercial reasons.

[Tim Lamb]

In message , [e-mail] writes

Elsewhere, the architect has specified 4-20-4 argon filled. The existing window rebate is much too narrow. Also new windows will be visible on the frontage and jar with the existing.

Isolated plot, set back from the highway.

Please enlarge. I thought the only difference was whether the burglars could prise them out.

Not yet. This will be out last house and I am trying to avoid predictable maintenance.

OK. There doesn't seem to be a raft of disgruntled powder paint owners out there.

[Tim Streater]

Yes. And why should internal/external glazing affect the chance of misting up on failure?

[The Natural Philosopher]

That's the one where the neighorhood perves footprints were found?

[Andy Burns]

The disadvantage being that scrotes can quietly remove the glazing bars and sealed unit from outside ...