Right route to upgrade heating system

[Markt]

Hi

Just moved into a bungalow that needs the heating system (and insulation) b= rought up to modern standards. Insulation is in hand.=20

Currently have an old potterton feeding CH and a vented HW cylinder. Wife w= ants the space taken by both the cylinder and boiler for her kitchen.

Now the question I would like to ask is this

Should I just upgrade to a modern combi boiler (Mounted in the loft) capabl= e of filling a bath in a reasonable time at a cost of circa =A33,500 ( as i= t needs new gas pipe) as recommended by the Energy Saving Trust. Or should = I but in a Thermal Store and new regular boiler (again both in loft). And l= ook to add an alt energy source like a ASHP in the future when the economic= s get better - like has happened to solar PV. Its difficult to get costs fo= r the second option as cannot find a plumber who knows about thermal stores= . So would install the store my self (costs =A31500) and then get a Gas Saf= e to do the boiler.

Would appreciate your views.

Thanks

Mark

[The Natural Philosopher]

brought up to modern standards. Insulation is in hand.

wants the space taken by both the cylinder and boiler for her kitchen.

of filling a bath in a reasonable time at a cost of circa £3,500 ( as it needs new gas pipe) as recommended by the Energy Saving Trust. Or should I but in a Thermal Store and new regular boiler (again both in loft). And look to add an alt energy source like a ASHP in the future when the economics get better - like has happened to solar PV. Its difficult to get costs for the second option as cannot find a plumber who knows about thermal stores. So would install the store my self (costs £1500) and then get a Gas Safe to do the boiler.

Oh..she wants ALL the space.

Personally I'd go for a system boiler in a lean to shed and a pressurised hot water tank in the loft.

No need for combis heat banks or anything else that is (as with most things modern and fashionable), a bad idea with another bad idea bolted on the side.

[John Rumm]

Did you specify the solid gold pipe ;-)

Another option would be an unvented cylinder in the loft. Mains pressure hot water again like with the store, but not limited by the output power of a combi. Again you could specify the cylinder with an additional indirect coil for solar should you want to add that later. That would probably be a bit cheaper than the thermal store.

Overall it really depends on what you want and how you expect to use it. Also worth checking to see what your mains flow rate is like. For any mains fed water system it needs to be good enough to keep up.

Combi is the cheap option, unless you specify a really powerful one. Stores and unvented give the option of backup immersion heaters.

[nafuk]

n) brought up to modern standards. Insulation is in hand.

fe wants the space taken by both the cylinder and boiler for her kitchen.

pable of filling a bath in a reasonable time at a cost of circa =A33,500 ( = as it needs new gas pipe) as recommended by the Energy Saving Trust. Or sho= uld I but in a Thermal Store and new regular boiler (again both in loft). A= nd look to add an alt energy source like a ASHP in the future when the econ= omics get better - like has happened to solar PV. Its difficult to get cost= s for the second option as cannot find a plumber who knows about thermal st= ores. So would install the store my self (costs =A31500) and then get a Gas= Safe to do the boiler.

Before considering a combi check water pressure and flow rates are adequate., If there is room I would install a cylinder (with additional coil for solar thermal) and sealed heating system. Get the cold cistern as high above the cylinder as possible and perhaps fit a good pump for hot and cold to the shower; have separate take-off for these from the hot tank and cold cistern. Can be DIYed except for the boiler. If you get a 'system' boiler everything is contained in the boiler casing; only additional parts to fit are two 2-way valves.

[Doctor Drivel]

This one hasn't a clue what he us on about. Please ignore.

[Doctor Drivel]

Forget an ASHP. Expensive to fit and run.

It is best to fit an Intergas combi, they give a decent flowrate. Super reliable with only 4 moving parts. These can take very hot water on the cold inlet, which means later you can add a stainless steel thermal store cylinder heated by solar for preheating the combi. If the water is hot enough the burner stays off. The combi burner just tops up if the stored solar is below the DHW setpoint.

Then you have a quality combi as the first stage which is upgradeable to stored solar for the second and they work in tandem.

Forget the poor advice from DIY amateurs.

[John Williamson]

Do you get a kickback from the makers? If not, I think you should ask them for one, as you sell their stuff so hard.

[John Rumm]

Ah, there will be a new flavour of the month shortly, there always is.

No faith in his own recommendations it seems.

[ARWadsworth]

TBF he only suggested installing one Combi.

[Doctor Drivel]

No kickback. Wish I did. I do not sell them - I do not sell. The boilers are the business. Previously rebadged under the Atmos name in the UK, and still are to my knowledge. It is difficult not to use them when they fall into the spec. No come backs as they go and go. For very high flowrate combis I like to use ATAG, again a Dutch boiler. High quality but more complex but again very reliable. Using a high flow ATAG means no unvented storage cylinders. Intergas are great for heating T-Stores - super simple and operate with a large delta-T. The Intergas combi can even be open vented for even more simplicity - I think the only one that can.

[Doctor Drivel]

You are an amateur plantpot. Read and learn my boy!

[Doctor Drivel]

Two is good. Do the figures my boy!

[ARWadsworth]

Twice as good?

[Doctor Drivel]

You got it!

[Newshound]

• 1

I've had performance and reliability problems with the last two combis, so have just gone for a system with pumped hot water, and a shower pump. Don't worry about condensing boilers, they contain fewer bits than a combi and it's all under computer control with fault codes displayed if something does go wrong.

[Terry Fields]

brought up to modern standards. Insulation is in hand.

We bought this 9 year old 4-bed detached house 18 months ago; it was fitted from new with a Gledhill Boilermate 2000 thermal store.

We love it to bits.

Mains-pressure hot water available 24/7; a bath fills in moments. Showers are bliss. Airing cupboard superb.

Turn the central heating on, one minute later all the rads are hot.

No stored water in the loft, apart from the system's F/E tank.

All spare parts are available AFAICT.

Downsides are: complex; single-point failure points everywhere; no electric backup for heating or hot water (in our particular system, that is; it can be incorporated); control board expensive to replace (possible to get a failed one repaired).

However, the chap next door is a Gas Safe plumber, and his house has one as well. Not sure if one can buy that sort of backup.

Hello, swings: meet roundabout....

Terry Fields

[ARWadsworth]

So three make it 3 times as good?

[Doctor Drivel]

If you like.