Request for Comment - Garden Shed

[The Natural Philosopher]

I need a new shed, the old one is after 18 years disintegrating (it was very cheap)

After the usual flaming row with SWMBO who has retracted everything she had agreed to and changed her mind denying it was the way she agreed it was as per usual, the following has been sketched up

would humbly beg the assembled multitudes to examine it in the light of its purpose and see if it will stay up.

Size:

5m x 3m and 4.2m tall.

Soil and foundations: Heavy clay, and surrounded by trees. I will probably use very basic strip foundations and use concrete with a few rebars to form these no more than 400mm deep.

Paving:

In order to allow the hedge trimmer around and obviate the need for mowers and strimmers the area will be paved inside and out with cheap as chips concrete paving slaps bedded on sand and maybe a bit of mortar. No attempt will be made to damp proof this.

Brick plinth: A single course of (good hard) brick thoroughly tied together will be laid as shown. Bolts head down will be embedded in the final later and a DPC laid over and the frame bolted to this - unless there is a simpler way? Strap ties?

Framework:

Main construction 75mm x 50mm PAR (cant get rough lumber any more hardly)

Rafters 100mm x 50mm

Ridge 150mm x 50mm

Gutter boards 150mm x 25mm

Bargeboards 100mm x 25mm

Cladding:

Shiplap laid horizontally.

Tiling: Clay pantiles on suitable battens (not shown) Looks like 1000 tiles/2 tonnes is about the finished weight.

Doors: same shiplap vertically on ledge and brace frame of 100mm x 50mm

Finish: Creosote (yes its still available in 5-10 gallon qtys).

[John Rumm]

Mostly.... you seem to be replying on the gable walls and the partition to hold the ridge up and in turn that to prevent any splaying forces that would tend to push the side walls apart.

I would be tempted to stick some cross bracing in to resist that force. Does not need to be at wall top level - they could go half way up the rafters. Also not on every rafter - but say on 4 sets in total along the length. (also gives you a convenient place to mount strip lights.

A bit of rebar ought to ensure that if it moves it does so mostly as a unit...

Threshold strip perhaps to stop driving rain filling it up...

Yup two or three bat straps on each wall will be fine, and easier to fix.

PAR or CLS? The latter seems to be quite commonly available in the places that used to do traditional sawn. (its somewhere between sawn and PAR - light planed with the corners knocked off - but not as undersized as real PAR)

Feather edge might be a bit cheaper...

No soffit by the looks of it - so wind will blow under the eves and into the shed.

[Andrew Gabriel]

One comment would be that I can't see anything to stop the roof spreading, although the weight of it might not be enough to worry about this on a shed. Normally, the ceiling joists in tension do this, or some higher up horizontal bracing joists between opposite rafters (don't know the proper name for them).

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yes SWMBO decided she wanted things to hang things from, so a cross beam every other rafter looks OK.

I hopes so. Steel is cheaper than massive extra concrete.

I built a retaining wall for a haha. Stupidly I did'n't tie the corner pillars into the wall - the wall is FULL of 'bow ties' and is more or less fine with one crack, but te pillars have moved away from the rest of the structure.

I'll slope it sop it runs out..

OK I'll run with that.

yerrs. I can get that too. I honestly don't care. I'll see what the BM says is cheapest.

Really? The whole thing looks bloody expensive to me.

Correct. Also bats and birds will nest. I'm fine with that. Its really to keep the rain off the stuff, not to be warm or heatproof. No sarking either.

And thanks for the comments. You have confirmed three things that were niggling me

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yes. I'll add those - after all its only a but of 2x4 and some nails

Most felted sheds don't bother, but this is tiled.

[Jeremy Nicoll - news posts]

trusses?

[John Rumm]

Indeed, and unless you pin it on piles then you are not going to win against trees.

That will do it ;-)

CLS is usually quite a bit cheaper (the wood mills make it out of slightly more wafty stock in the first place)

They are 'kin expensive when you use real materials to build them (hence why all the commercial ones are only a small step up from cardboard!)

There is not much in it, but the feather edge profile is usually slightly cheaper than shiplap or loglap.

Should save needing to worry about rot too much then.

No problem...

[The Natural Philosopher]

Ooh-er missus!

[The Natural Philosopher]

Oh you can win by going deep. I've tgot 2.5m foundations near the ash.... tree...

Oh, Thats good then.

yeah the existing one has had so many felt failures its completely gone,.

[NT]

Just one thing I'd change: I'd mostly stop the damp coming up from the ground. You'll get less condensation then, and less tool rusting. Bitumen painting the slab undersides & sides is easy, ditto sand & cement brushed into the gaps. or better bitumen & sand.

NT

[The Natural Philosopher]

T'would be simple enough to put a membrane down then

Oddly enough the garage has no DPM or anything and its fine - it seems that all you need to do to keep a space dry is keep the rain off and protect it from dew with a roof.

[Andy Wade]

For the sort of quantities you're going to need Ridgeons would probably supply traditional sawn carcassing to order.

No 50 mm carcassing timber any more, it's all ex 47 mm these days, giving around 44 mm finished thickness on the machined kiln-dried stuff. CLS is even thinner I think.

Feather-edge 'barn cladding' might look better (IMHO).

[Owain]

Does it make a difference from the plants' point of view which end of the building the potting shed bit is, i.e. daylight/heat etc? As potting shed end more likely to be using water, I would put the water butts that end.

Owain

[The Natural Philosopher]

well that's what ridgeons catalogue says. for PAR anyway.

Not that I greatly care. Wood is always +- 40% on strength depending on what tree and what part of what tree it was hacked out of.

Not sure. I like everything here to 'look native' as far as possible, or at least not stand out as radically different.

Shiplap is a bit easier to use and presents a flat surface for hinge mountings at least.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Tlak to SWMBO not me.

That glazing is North Eats but the south west end is under several trees.

I pointed it all out but thats the way she wants it.

Apparently I have to lay a permanent hose extension 100meters down the garden anyway. MDPE? I hope there is some MDPE to hoselock via a pipe type kit around.

[Owain]

Some form of 'garden tap' perhaps.

Owain

[Owain]

If you've got potable water then you might as well put a cable duct down while you're trenching.

That way you can have a kettle point or battery charging.

• Alarm extension if you have machinery/tools in there.

Owain

[The Natural Philosopher]

The far end is no big deal MDPE to standpipe is 'well understood'

Its going from hose to MDPE at the house end. I am buggered if I carve up the path to lay te pipe all that way

I guess some hose male onto a pipe onto copper onto MDPE

[The Natural Philosopher]

Cant be arsed. I can always run the freelander down there if I need 12v..

Or use a bloody long extension cable or two.

[NT]

Didnt work for my shed.

NT