Time has come to replace my rotting timber single-glazed windows with modern uPVC jobs; the only question is whether to diy or (argh) get in a Window Replacement Company.
Problem is that I've discovered that although there are (concrete) lintels fitted over the inner leaf of the cavity wall, there ain't nothing over the outer leaf. Now, I have absolutely no doubt that if I go to a FENSA-registered WRC plc, they will happily bung in new uPVC ones without adding lintels, and until the frames start sagging in the middle, nobody will be any the wiser. But if I diy, then I have to go through Building Control don't I; and you can bet your life they will insist on lintels being put in.
Is this synopsis about right? Are there 'special' uPVC windows available which would legitimately obviate the need for fitting this lintel? I'm looking at selling up pretty soon, so tbh I have to say I don't really have a vested interest in ensuring the new windows last for 30 years...!
Finally - before I get into WRC plc hell, has anyone got a ballpark figure for what I might be quoted for a full replacement job? It's a two bedroom terraced with 7 reasonably large windows.
Surely if you just repair the existing windows rather than replacing them then nothing's changed and everyone's happy? Sounds like you're not too bothered with the result as long as it doesn't involve hassle and great expense.
Thats what happened here, although our inner lintels are timber. Apparently it was compounded further by replacing the existing timber windows that had side openers [hence another one or two uprights in the frame] with upvc windows that had top openers.
That said, the two replacement windows that do have side openers seem to be holding up well enough [fx: touces wood, throws salt over shoulder etc]
You can easily get upvc windows, like mine, which are fully steel re-inforced. But are you sure there that your lintels aren't in fact "boot-lintels" where its not obvious on the outside that there is a lintel on the outer leaf? I had a house survey failed by a vendor's surveyor because he thought there were no lintels on the outer leafs. My surveyor sent him a page from a text book showing that in fact it was a fairly common occurance of a hidden lintel. Vendor's ignorant surveyor, egg on face, backed down and sale went through.
Now that's really interesting: news to me. Presumably these are building-regs compliant? Who sells them?
Well... I have looked into this, and a structural engineer friend told me he was sure there weren't any. Definitely there's nothing visible on the outside: you can see the bottom face of all the bricks on the outer leaf (well, the 50% which is visible in front of the top of the window frame, anyway). There's also a diagonal crack therough the brick joints heading up for about 6 courses, at 45 deg, from the corner of one wiondow. Is it
*possible* there's some form of lintel in there? Would save me a lot of grief!! How can I tell for sure without without taking a window out?
The steel reinforced upvc windows are often specced for bay windows in older houses where the orig bay frame is supporting the stuff above. The Kommerling ones fitted for me by
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have it as standard.
Cowboy upvc outfits, e.g. Anglian, won't bother. Anyway, it could be your walls don't have a lintels and maybe should have them fitted to avoid collapse.
Well it would be very nice if you're right about that; however (see earlier post) this was the diagnosis of a structural engineer. I've just found and read the post cited by Old Bill (thanks, Old Bill!) which is at:
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- ah, what the hell, here's a cut and paste: below - it makes interesting reading:
From: Jareth Date: 2000/06/17 Subject: "Can't you see mate? I've got double glazing already!" - PART 1
How we all get ticked off by window companies canvassing for trade - even if it is blatantly obvious that I already have a full compliment of replacement windows, roofline, conservatory, porch and even the garage door. I have no such problem when they call. I put them on the spot and ask "Just what are the benefits to me of taking out my windows and installing theirs?"
The majority of double-glazing customers know little about the products they buy. Most buy on price without giving a thought to just how long the company has been trading or what their track record is. Anyone considering making a capital investment in their home should first check out with Trading Standards officers, the Consumer Council, the GGF, local newspapers and consumer rights programmes/publications.'Safebuy UK', 'CPA', 'Fair Trades' endorsements do not carry the same level of benefits as the GGF.
Avoid being guided by friends who mean well but who might not be aware of the shortfalls of their own installation, eg. discoloration, distortion & warping, splitting and cracking of PVCu, security issues, failure of sealed units, etc. A warranty which is insurance-backed may not be worth the paper it's written on.
The exclusion of lintels is the most common practice of many local firms and some national companies. Did you never wonder how their prices could be so much lower than everyone elses? How can you tell if you need a lintel? Indicators could be soldier bricks (vertical or end-on) or creasing tiles (ceramic) over a window casement. Try sliding a metal rule under the seal at the top of the window and see if there is the metallic lip of a boot lintel or beam. If you have plastic windows already see if the is any evidence of distortion in the horizontal members of the window or door frame. Do windows and doors catch the frame when closing? Are there cracks in the brickwork above patio doors and windows? Are any sealed units with cracks running diagonally? The exclusion of lintels undermines the structural integrity of your home and contravenes building regulations. Check also for trickle vents to rooms with a gas supply (even if it is no longer used).
The quality of the product and service will be reflected in both the price and in the reputation the company has. The local firm frequently are fabricators and sub-contract out for the manufacture and supply of components. British Standard Kitemarks and guarantees often are held by the supplier so any claims made, eg. "Installers of Kitemarked Windows" or "Security by Design" need to be ignored. If they are not BS EN ISO 9002 registered they cannot make any claim to BS Kitemarks.
Older casement window frames are quite often 4x2 and will be stronger than a stud wall because of the shorter length of the 'studs'. Even a modern casement window would probably hold up quite a weight, though not designed to do so: a 50x75 1.2m long will hold up 1.3 tons
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