Replacement Gas Fire

[Warwick]

My house was built in 1981. The gas fire in the living room is an ugly 3 bar thing presumably as fitted in every house in the street judging by the rest of the street.

I've been offered a 3 year old real flame gas fire as a replacement by someone who bought a house with it fitted and removed it carefully before having the supply capped and the chimney uncapped so they could turn their fireplace into a real fire.

The seller of the house it'll come from left receipts for annual servicing so we know it was checked over by the company that fitted my combi about 9 months ago.

I assume that It'd be sensible to...

1. Pressure test the appliance when off
2. Ensure I have connectors that match up and do as careful a job a s possible
3. Pressure test the entire system once reconnected with everything off.
4. Get in a mate who has a gas leak detector to ensure that any solder/compression joints are OK.
5. Turn the gas on and test the fire
6. Run a CO meter in the room for a few hours with the fire on
7. Run a CO meter upstairs for a few hours just in case.

As I plan on doing all the work myself then I'm pretty sure that Corgi isn't needed. I'm used to brazing joints so don't expect any leaks but would prefer to use compression because I'm a lazy git.

The fire won't be running until a really bad cold night hits so if I get a service of it with the boiler in September when the boiler is due too (I have the service schedule for the boiler and would much rather have someone else run through it) then I can't forsee any problems

Comments?

Warwick

[Andy]

Probably the fire will be fitted to that small bore gas tubing? That needs a special olive and compression fitting: at least, my old gas fire was connected that way. To test for leaks a can of 'Snoop' aerosol works fine, even a dilute squeezy solution suitable for bubbles works ( clean it off afterwards ), just pour on the new joint(s) and watch for bubbles.

You then ought to do a pressure test with a u-tube manometer, easily made with some clear tube and a bit of wood with inches/centimeters marked off on it. Pretty much 1mBar = 1cm head of water ( I use milkless tea as it's easier to see better). Ed Sirett details this in his gas-fiting FAQ,

you test the pressure holding capacity of the pipework after the meter, at two different pressures ( see FAQ ) and watch for a pressure drop, as that would indicate a leak.

I think you need to purge the appliance a little to get the air out before turn-on. Fitting of the gas fire is beyond my experience, you'll have to research into the correct method for fitting it into the fire opening etc.

Andy.

[Rusty Nail]

It would be safer if you employed a corgi registered gas fitter to install a NEW! fire for you, minimising the risk of death and injury. Doing this kind of work yourself could also land you with a =A35000 fine and a stretch in jail. My advice would be dont do this one yourself.

[Andy]

It would be safer if you employed a corgi registered gas fitter to install a NEW! fire for you, minimising the risk of death and injury. Doing this kind of work yourself could also land you with a £5000 fine and a stretch in jail. My advice would be dont do this one yourself.

There is no legal requirement to use a CORGI gas fitter, IIRC the law says that the fitter must be 'competent' it makes no definition of what that is. If you fit the fire competently, you're competent. I believe only registered fitters may fit fires and gas appliances for reward though.

So, no £5,000 fine, and no going to jail. I've fitted a combi and a gas cooker to date, no problems at all, but I am a diligent sort of person with a little engineering experience.

Andy.

[John Rumm]

Usual caveats on these comments since I am not a trained gas fitter, and I have only fitted my boiler, plus done various pipework alterations and repairs. I have not looked in detail at fitting a gas fire....

Not sure if we are describing the same activity here, but I tend to insert a step: before you touch anything, do a pressure drop test of the system as it stands. It can save loads of frustration trying to find a leak in your nice new pipework that is actually somewhere else altogether, was left by the last "pro" who forgot to solder a joint, and has been there for years!

If you are seeing no pressure drop, and leak detector spray is not showing ny leak then step 4 may be overkill.

I would be inclined to purge the gas from the new pipework before doing the drop test - that way you are testing it for gas soundness and not air soundness.

Usual comments about not using compression under floors etc.

Check the room ventilation requirements are met. I would also do smoke match testing on the flue etc to make sure it is drawing correctly.

I am sure Ed will be along shortly with a more definitive answer ;-)

[John Rumm]

If you fit it competently (the only legal requirement), then how would the risk be minimised by employing someone who is not going to live in the house and has less motivation to make sure it is absolutely right?

Huh?

Then find another newsgroup ;-)

[Warwick]

I was thinking of the fire and not the existing system. We've had the boiler serviced in the last year though and that included a pressure test of the house system for leaks. I'll add that in though so I know that no problems have developed though

Yes, but it can't really hurt can it.

good point

Hopefully not having to chase into the floor or wall. The piping was all built in to the walls when the place was built. I'll be cutting off the exiting connector with some spare and then bending a replacement connection pipe.

Thank you

Warwick

[Ed Sirett]

There are so many aspects to this job that competence would be a wide ranging subject (in respect of this job). [1] The skills and dangers are not with the connection of the gas supply, although that is also an important aspect. The flueing and ventilation standards and checks are very much the essence of this job.

I really do recommend that you get professional help for this type of gas job.

[1] There are other jobs where the skill and experience required is much less.

[Ed Sirett]

This is not the accepted way. See BS 6891

A CO detector is a backup safety device. The primary safety comes from adequate inspection and testing of the flue and ventilation.

Yep, with all respect to you, seriously, get some help in.

[Warwick]

Do nothing.

Got it today and it isn't quite as described. An open grated real fire type thing and not flames behind glass. It'd be lovely in the right setting, but my living room isn't that setting.

The garden's very sheltered and I can't see any strong reason why I can't build a low brick surround on three sides and run it off a gas bottle as a patio heater instead. Engineering bricks of course.

Warwick

[Andy Hall]

On Sun, 4 Jun 2006 22:32:04 +0100, Warwick wrote (in article ):

It would need to be adapted for LPG. Check that with the manufacturer. It may or may not be possible, but if it is, there may be a kit of parts to do that

However, if it is a decorative effect type of fire, it will have a very limited output and may not be enough to be worthwhile in terms of heating on a patio.

[Gav]

why not install a gas line from house, that'll impress the jones'

[Warwick]

How many regulations would I have to meet to do that right?

As frightening ideas go it's a classic.

I can'r even begin to think of how many ways that is dangerously insane or expensive if done properly.

At a bare minimum I'd have to tear up the patio, dismantle the lean-to conservatory and remove the kitchen just to get to the gas supply. Once there, do I need to armour the run, put it into conduit? Once the supply point is in place can I use a flexible pipe to supply the unit or should I just blow us all up? Fun idea though

Warwick

[Ed Sirett]

Stacks but they are listed out in BS 6891. See below. Nice diagram showing how deep to bury the gas pipe under the paving slabs.

[Warwick]

That's a rather well written BS document. I don't normally find tham easy reading. The diagrams are rather nice.

I'm still not going to do it but it was nice to know that the way I'd approach it wasn't too far off.

I hadn't worked through the job completely in my mind becaue I wasn't going to do it but what I'd missed from my mental check list was the control valave on the end of the building.

What I'm pleased at was that I overspecced the minimum depth by about

50% and the materials I'd use were a bit more heavy duty than the standard required.

Thanks

Warwick