Have an integrated fridge wired directly to an in-line fuse. Where the in-line fuse socket is, I want to add a single switched socket to plug in a new freezer + keep the integrated fridge.
Is it okay to replace the in-line fuse ONLY socket with a single switch socket that includes an in-line fuse?
Cheers
Sounds like you have a fused spur with flex outlet - it's a single plate with fuse, switch and flex coming out of a hole? That would be normal.
And you want 2 appliances connect there. Do you want 2 fused spurs, or do you want to add a regular socket and plug the freezer into that?
If you want 2 fused spurs or existing spur + new socket, then you need to check if the existing fused spur is directly on the ring.
Make the circuit dead and remove the plate - if you find exactly 2 cables going into the back then it's directly on the ring and the following is OK:
Add another single box with second switched fused spur+flex outlet plate and connect to first with 2.5mm2 twin+earth. Don't forget to earth the back box if it's metal.
If you have only one cable going in to the existing plate, then it's already a spur and you cannot add another spur.
If you have 3 cables going into the back, you have a something else already spurred off it and you cannot add another.
If this is the case, you're best (and only common) bet is to replace your plate with a double socket outlet.
I'm confused about the bit where you mention "socket that includes an in-line fuse". 13A sockets don't contain fuses in normal domestic use - fuse is in the plug. If I haven't answered your question, you may need to clarify that a bit.
Timbo
And you wonder why Part P is being implemented. :-))
Make the circuit dead and remove the plate - if you find exactly 2 cables going into the back then it's directly on the ring and the following is OK:
Was the bit that firghtened me!
"exactly 2 cables", hmmm, interesting concept that. What might approximately two cables indicate? :-)
Two cables into the back box is *no* guarantee that the socket is on a ring, it may be indicative but it's not a good idea to rely on it.
Another person may have (incorrectly) put more than one socket on a spur.
The circuit may not be a ring. (Quite likely as I seem to remember it's on a 15A MCB)
Not really.... and it has nothing to do with the above!
(lets face it, even if a new spur was incorrectly added to an existing spur (i.e. a "minor work" not covered by part P - in fact the sort of activity that part P encourages), the chances of it posing any risk to life of limb in this particular case, (i.e. running a freezer and a fridge) are pretty slim)
As opposed to 3 or 1??
Yes - indeed you are quite correct. 'twas late at night. I should have said "likely to be on a ring". I suppose I assumed that teh original would be correctly wired, which of course isn't guaranteed.
seem to remember
Timbo
See my other reply.
Yes - I had an assumption in my mind that the original circuit was correctly wired. And due to being tired I didn't imagine the case that it might be incorrect.
Seeing the problem at first hand is always easier than trying to give a series of conditional answers based on partial assumptions.
Anyway, quite right to point out the deficiency in my answer.
However, at least the OP had the sense to ask the question rather than just doing it. So I might suggest (to BigWallop) that not poking people with jibes (I know it had a smiley) would be more helpful as the OP came here for help and putting him off isn't helping at all.
Tim
Quite correct. A point I have overlooked at midnight. At least you were graceful about pointing it out, unlike some others(!)
I could suggest a possible test for this: Disconnect both cables at the plate in question and terminate safely and seperately (use a couple of junction boxes, not tape!
Turn off *all* appliances/loads on that ring, because it will not be correctly wired and will be a fire hazard if loaded significantly, for the duration of the test.
If he makes the circuit live again and does a thorough check to see if any other spurs/sockets/etc in the kitchen *and* in ajoining rooms go dead as a result. The latter check is needed in case there is a spur disappearing through the wall into another room.
Don;t forget to turn off and reconnect the ring before turning over to normal use ;->
That's the best I can suggest, unless it's visually obvious where all the cables go.
Bit confused - unless my news server ate half the messages, where did the
15A MCB come from?Tim
On 29 Nov 2004 13:29:34 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@easy.com (mike1c) strung together this:
???????? No idea what you're on about here, sorry. Call an electrician.
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:19:12 +0000, Tim S strung together this:
Unless it's on a radial.
Not neccesarily, could be a spur off of a spur.
Unless it's the end of a radial circuit.
Unless it's a radial.
Whatever. I think you're as cluless as the OP, but seem not to think so.
Considering that the original information was vague, then what I described was exactly how I would proceed given a typical installation. And I would refine my methods depending on what I found.
OP asked question. I described how I would tackle it. Others noted potential odd cases. Not cases I would initially think of as 0/5 houses I've lived in had a) radial socket circuits (other than cooker feed and the description didn't sound connected with a cooker circuit) or b) incorrectly wired spurs.
Yes, it's very easy to point out random corner cases. And quite correct to do so, so that the OP has some decent information at the end of it.
However, name calling just makes for an unfriendly atmosphere in a usually helpful newsgroup. I would expect the OP is wondering why he bothered coming here at all, just to be flamed by a couple of people on their high-horses.
Tim
But what if the OP didn't ask in here, how to continue with this job? Then he/she goes and changes the fuse/breaker for a higher rating because that circuit kept blowing the fuse?
Don't you think that would pose a risk in some way? Their are a lot more people out there, that aren't asking how it should be done you know.
And people still say that the new electrical requirements aren't needed. :-)) We need something to cover the DIY electrical jobs. Change the front plate? That's OK. But fix the wiring or change the layout? Please leave it to the people that know.
It's a fair point. But how many of those people will even know about about the existence of Part P?
At least the OP asked. He may never ask again after some of the attitudes demonstrated here.
Perhaps I was wrong to pose a method of proceeding without understanding the OP's situation. No doubt some people heer have written me off as clueless. Not true. I don't have a problem when I can see what I'm dealing with and have some background knowledge of teh installation. My weakness is dealing with hypothetical situations where I don't have the all the facts, but a big pile of what-if scenarios.
Perhaps it would be better if I did not proffer advice in those situations. But this is uk.d-i-y. Not uk.professional-advice-sue-us-if-we're-wrong
But to be afraid to say anything in case there is a slight risk of the poster screwing up would be akin to not being able to discuss anything which carried the slightest risk.
Life is full of risks. Might as well say no-one should be allowed to change a tyre, or advise on how to do it. Could fall off if the bolts are undertightened/overtightened/multitude-of-other-possible-errors and cause a pile up killing the person and a few innocent fellow motorists. Serious
- yes. But I have not seen the same sort of attitudes demonstrated towards people doing their own car servicing as I have towards electrical work.
Tim
I'm sorry you feel picked on. Nowhere didn't we mention you, or anyone else, in any of my replies. We only gave our opinions on the replies, as you gave your opinion also. I only ask people to remember that the new electrical requirements are being implemented soon. Any situation that requires an OP to change original wiring schemes for their jobs should be advised to do so in a way that requires the minimum of changes and the least amount of fuss.
We must all watch what we advise now as it could just give the wrong impression of being the correct way to do things. We don't want people having criminal cases brought against them, if such a situation should arise. We'll lose the attendance in the group, won't we? :-)
No one is picking on you, you're OK. :-)
Ta.
I follow your caution and agree with it - but find it sad in a way that it's coming to this.
I suppose it's time for a disclaimer on everything: "this is a DIY group. Weigh the opinions intelligently and don't bet your life on them"... I'd always taken that as read, but you're right, it may not always be obvious. Especially as we are moving towards a more litigatious society.
Cheers
Tim
What if? What if the OP replaced the fuse with a 6" nail? Sorry I fail to see your point here. There are any number of ways things could be done in the future that would change a currently safe instalation into a dangerous one.
I agree, the people out there who are not asking questions are likely to be the ones posing most risk. They are also the ones that part P is powerless to influence.
As a separate point, I tend to find it objectionable when people ask a question here and get pounced on or belittled for not knowing the answer already (this is not a reference to you BTW).
If you have any hard evidence for this, then please present it, because so far the government have been through a whole "consultation" exercise and have failed to produce any credible evidence to support their current course of action. This can only lead to the conclusion that they are totally stupid (and total stupidity is relatively rare) or, they have some other hidden agenda.
How about please leave it until you become one of the people who knows?
No. explain again. I want to know what you are proposing. My guess is to change a FCU into a FCU and a single socket.
Adam
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