Rendering front of house

[Michael]

Hi. I'm getting quotes for rerendering the front of our 1930's house. They all seem quite high to me - ranging from about =A31500-=A34000. For an average size wall it shouldn't be that big a job should it?

Is this something I can diy? I have a small amount of internal plastering experience and I'm planning to practise on a garden wall. I was going to do a scratch coat with 6 parts sand 1 part lime and 1 part cement. Then wait a week or two and do a pebbledash by doing another coat and chucking stones at it while trying not to break the windows!

Also do I need to use EML (Expanded metal lath) as one builder has advised? Apparently this ensures the render stays on.

Any advice appreciated - Thanks, mike

[Phil Anthropist]

"Michael" wrote: Hi. I'm getting quotes for rerendering the front of our 1930's house. They all seem quite high to me - ranging from about £1500-£4000. For an average size wall it shouldn't be that big a job should it?

Is this something I can diy? I have a small amount of internal plastering experience and I'm planning to practise on a garden wall. I was going to do a scratch coat with 6 parts sand 1 part lime and 1 part cement. Then wait a week or two and do a pebbledash by doing another coat and chucking stones at it while trying not to break the windows!

Also do I need to use EML (Expanded metal lath) as one builder has advised? Apparently this ensures the render stays on.

Any advice appreciated - Thanks, mike

[ =========================== ]

In theory, if you can do a small wall you can do a large wall provided you have suitable access equipment. Do those quotes include erecting a tower or scaffold? The last time I needed scaffold at the front of my house it cost £200 a few years ago. If you do it yourself have you got suitable access equipment or will you have to hire it? If it turns out a diy disaster you can either live with it if you are not planning to sell, or hack it off.

[Tamburlaine]

Is this something I can diy? I have a small amount of internal plastering experience and I'm planning to practise on a garden wall. I was going to do a scratch coat with 6 parts sand 1 part lime and 1 part cement. Then wait a week or two and do a pebbledash by doing another coat and chucking stones at it while trying not to break the windows!

Also do I need to use EML (Expanded metal lath) as one builder has advised? Apparently this ensures the render stays on.

Any advice appreciated - Thanks, mike

For rendering to last over time you need sharp sand and not building sand. Lots of "professionals" use building sand for rendering as it's a lot easier to apply, looks the same when applied and the punters don't know the difference in any case. You can see many examples of this technique around the country as it usually starts to fall off after a fairlyshort period of time, you can then see what has been used by the colour and hardness (little cement, cheaper and easier again).

The advice of using EML seems to be a little doubtful as the only thing this will achieve is to ensure the render will adhere to the EML and not necessarily the wall at all. If the EML is other than stainless steel it's likely to corrode away to nothing in short order in any case (is all EML stainless?).

The mix should be 12 sharp sand, 2 cement and 1 lime.

I did my outhouse one wall at a time with a partial thickness build up which I allowed to "go off" somewhat (not hard) and then filled to full level. This would be too much work on a full house front at one time and it can sag if you get the timing wrong, so you have no real alternative but to go for 2 coats.

When I did my daughter's house front onto breeze block I used PVA to bond to the subsurface (2 dilute seal coats and then mix applied to a wet coat of dilute PVA - diluted as directions) but when I did my own house onto brick, when no-one semed to have heard of, let alone use PVA, I just damped the wall first. All render still in place on both jobs, after 20 years in case of my property and after 5 years in case of daughter's house.

Get proper scaffold access and be prepared for some really hard graft - solicit plenty of assistance!

Have a go - best of luck!

[Tamburlaine]

Forgot to mention, in the case of daughter's house I also used a water-proofer in the mix, to try and ensure no water penetrated to the breeze-block. The render was to be painted, which would assist with the water-proofing in any case but I always think a bit of "belt and braces" does no harm. The wall was not damp as it was covered in wooden cladding and I wanted it to stay that way after the render, as it did.

[meow2222]

It can be done either way, with or without EML. With it youv got something the render will stick to easily, but what tends to happen is as the render is wiped on it presses the eml down, which then springs back slightly immediately. IOW its much harder to get it to bond to the brickwork. But if you dont care about that its sure quicker.

Other thing with galv EML is it rusts and breaks the render all apart. SS eml is available but you'd most liikely have to order it in, and its several times the price.

Someone mentioned 12:2:1 or something like that, most cement lime mixes are prone to premature failure, 1:1:6 being the only one that isnt.

I would not choose cement render myeslf, as so many houses have become damp years down the line as a result of it, but thats not something you'll find any knowledge about round here.

And yes, rendering is easy enough, just a time consuming pita.

NT

[Weatherlawyer]

Getting the preparation done right first could be a PITA until you have learned how important it is. Scratching out the pointing and putting battons around the openings and things like that.

Pebbledashing is an expert's job or at least an experienced amateur's. You have to be quick and you can't just mix a bit of mortar at a time for that.

[Cicero]

Is this something I can diy? I have a small amount of internal plastering experience and I'm planning to practise on a garden wall. I was going to do a scratch coat with 6 parts sand 1 part lime and 1 part cement. Then wait a week or two and do a pebbledash by doing another coat and chucking stones at it while trying not to break the windows!

Also do I need to use EML (Expanded metal lath) as one builder has advised? Apparently this ensures the render stays on.

Any advice appreciated - Thanks, mike

====================== I think that EML is necessary only for curved bay windows (section between upper and lower bays) and for beadings around other windows and as a finisher at the bottom edge of the render. It's also used where there is a plywood surface to be rendered, and that's a whole can of worms in itself.

I think the price you've been quoted is quite high but of course it depends on where you are. I had my semi done (3 sides) about 3 years ago. The cost was about £2000-00p + £90-00p for scaffolding to one side.

I would suggest that you don't have it rendered (or DIY) unless there is some compelling reason to do it. Good honest brickwork is better than render. Mine was already done and had deteriorated badly so I had it re-done, but I wouldn't do it by choice.

If you do go ahead consider a 'Tyrolean' finish. This can hide any joins in the render and has the advantage that the light never falls on it in a way that shows up imperfections in workmanship. Look here for a Tyrolean splatter gun:

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[Stuart Noble]

I'll just quote the Prudential's loss adjuster "There are 2 types of render. The one that has failed, and the one that's about to fail". And IME he's right. Don't do it unless you absolutely have to. What's there at the moment?

Also, disregard any advice that says rendering a whole wall and pebbledashing is easy. I'd say it's not even remotely possible to get the result you'd want for the front of your house with your skill level. I expect the garden wall experiment will convince you of that :-)

[Roman]

Pru's loss adjuster is referring to the incorrectly applied render finish using building sand i.e. the usual variety done by professionals.

My outhouse has a render finish over 20 years old, correctly mixed and applied with an angle grinder required to remove some of it to install a new window. I certainly wouldn't like to try removing any of it with a hammer and chisel, such a pursuit would be very labour intensive. There are some cracks in the render caused by settlement (we're on clay and with the drier weather we're having etc). As a general comment the failure/ about to fail argument doesn't hold water other than in the circumstances referred to in para1.

As regards aesthetics, I also prefer brickwork but the original poster refers to renewing existing render, so this is also irrelevant.

As to the pebble dashing, I've never done it, or seen it done, so couldn't comment.

[Michael]

I agree with avoiding rendering on walls if possible. Unfortunately in my case that's not an option as the rest of the street is rendered (mostly pebbledash) and the mortar holding the bricks together is as soft as a sandcastle and I wouldn't trust it keeping out damp.

Had a go with the garden wall and the first coat doesn't look too bad for what I'm after. It is very hard work but I feel more confident after everyone's advice - although I'm probably going to steer clear of pebbledashing for now. By the way -Am I right in saying some modern cement comes with lime already added? The chap in Wickes seemed to think so.

BTW - As a previous poster says - If it becomes a diy disaster then live with it or chip it off. It's certainly not going to be any worse than what's falling off the walls currently.

Roman wrote:

[Andrew Gabriel]

It comes with a plasticiser as an option (it will say on the bag, and the last standard cement bag I bought from Wickes was Lafarge with plasticiser), but I don't think the plasticiser in it is lime. Of course, lime is used to make many cements, including Portland which is the most common type nowadays.

[Michael]

I agree with avoiding rendering on walls if possible. Unfortunately in my case that's not an option as the rest of the street is rendered (mostly pebbledash) and the mortar holding the bricks together is as soft as a sandcastle and I wouldn't trust it keeping out damp.

Had a go with the garden wall and the first coat doesn't look too bad for what I'm after. It is very hard work but I feel more confident after everyone's advice - although I'm probably going to steer clear of pebbledashing for now. By the way -Am I right in saying some modern cement comes with lime already added? The chap in Wickes seemed to think so.

BTW - As a previous poster says - If it becomes a diy disaster then live with it or chip it off. It's certainly not going to be any worse than what's falling off the walls currently.

Roman wrote:

[Nick H]

You should definately have a go yourself, then you will know the rea meaning of the word "regret

-- Nick H

[Stuart Noble]

I think he was referring to all render, and I still think he's right. I can't imagine any professional plasterer using just soft sand. It's normally a mix of sharp and soft I think.

Well, yes, that's how the problem starts. Water gets into the cracks, then gets behind the cracks, and so on.

(we're on clay and with the drier