Removing wall..

[Simon]

Hi there,

I'm thinking about removing a wall between my bathroom and what used to be a toilet in my 1920's semi.

Both rooms are on the 1st floor of my house and it looks like the wall is made of black mortar (not bocks as far as I can tell). I've found that the wall sits directly on the floor boards which run between the rooms. It's resting on a part of the floor that is in between joists. I've checked in the attic and the top of the wall does not support anything.

As the wall sits directly onto floorboards and is not made of brick, is it fairly safe to assume that it's not structural at all? The wall itself is aound 6ft long.

Thanks!

Simon

[Roger Mills]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'black mortar'. Can you describe it in a bit more detail? Is it solid or hollow? Is there a wooden frame?

Even if not made of brick or block, it doesn't *necessarily* mean that it's not load bearing. A wooden stud partition wall can be load bearing if it supports ceiling joists - or even the roof structure in some cases. Do any joists run across the top of this wall at right angles? If so, what section are they and what would be the length between remaining supports if you were to remove this wall?

[Simon]

Hi Roger,

It's solid and made out of black mortar. I haven't revealed enough of the wall to see how it's put together - so I can't see if there's a wooden frame. Looking in the attic, there's no joists directly on top of the wall - just lath and plaster ceiling - in fact the laths of the ceiling run over the top if this wall. On the bottom of the wall, the floorboards run underneath and the same single board spans both rooms, i.e. a board that starts in the old toilet room, runs under the wall in question and ends up in the bathroom.

Cheers

Simon

[Brian G]

Simon,

Have you hit the wall with a hammer to see if it's hollow, or even tried to poke a bradawl or screwdriver into it?

The reason for asking is that this wall will be constructed in one of two ways:

1 - A brick/block wall with a black mortar rendering (there will be something supporting the mortar).

2 - A timber stud wall with lath and plaster (black mortar) rendering.

If there are no joists or studs resting directly on top the wall then it's an almost (and I stress, almost) safe bet that it is not a structural wall and could be safely taken down. The reason for the reticence is simply that I have not seen the job.

If you do go ahead and take it down, then just be aware that the lath and plaster ceiling may not be in too good a condition and parts of it may fall down as you're working. Also be aware of hidden cables and pipes that may have sneakily been installed over the years - better to be safe-than-sorry.

Brian G

[Bypass]

Just because a wall doesn't support a ceiling joist or roof rafter doesn't mean it is not structural (or load bearing). In addition to (or instead of) supporting a vertical load, some walls provide a lateral restraint to the walls they abutt.

To be on the safe side you should always consult a structural engineer.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yes. Whack it down and be done with it.

Its probably a later addition.

My parents house had a downstairs toilet that was never on the original plans, but was built as an extra, eating into kitchen space, and that had a similar non structural wall, tho since it was done when the house was built, the joists were connected to it above.

[Simon]

Hi there - thanks for the replies so far.

To answer Brian's query - yes I've knocked a hole through already and it's plaster then black mortar- this could be in the form of blocks but I can't quite see yet.

Bypass - as for the query re lateral restraint, only side of the wall touches the external wall of the house - the other side is of the wall is used to hinge an interior door, so I don't think it could be lateral support for anything.

Cheers Simon

[The Natural Philosopher]

Sounds like a cinder block wall to me.

From the days of the coal and steel industries..ah nostalgia...

Knock it down and get going.

[Simon]

Yes a cinder block wall sounds about right - much messier than modern breeze blocks. Well the wall is down (took 6 minutes with a large sledge!) and I'm well on the way to replatering the bits that fell off the walls!

Thanks to all who responded!

Cheers Simon