Regs for a power socket in a bath/shower room

[Calvin Sambrook]

Hi everyone,

I know I'm the first to direct people to the regs but I'm having trouble finding the information I need in them and I know that many here know everything there is to know about electrical installs.

I have a large "bathroom" except that it has no bath only a fully enclosed shower, a bidet, a toilet and a sink. These are arranged along two sides of the room and I am building a cupboard in the opposite corner on which I would like to mount a power socket and a thermostat for the heating. Primarily the power socket is intended to be used for a hairdryer, hair clippers and a vacuum cleaner.

I need to know what's permissible, what's safe and what's sensible (of course they *may* overlap!) but a can't find much in the regs which makes sense. From one reading it would appear that power sockets are not allowed at all - no matter what size the room - which would be a bit non-sensical. But in other places the regs talk of shortening the power cords on appliances likely to be plugged into a socket in such cases so that they cannot reach the sink/bath - like that's going to happen! Anyway I recall hairdressers all have sockets mounted right next to the sinks so they must be allowed in some cases as businesses such as these tend to have the regs imposed quite strictly.

In my case the power socket would be about 1.2m from the sink, on the opposite wall and about 1.7m from the glass door of the shower enclosure, also on the opposite wall, and much further still from the bidet and toilet.

Thoughts anyone?

[BruceB]

It would be interesting to know what you are reading. It is pretty clear in the regs and the OSG. For starters, all circuits in the bath/shower room must be protected by 30mA rcd (701.411.3.3) and socket outlets are not allowed within 3m of zone 1 (701.512.3) - the edge of the bath or shower basin. So by the sound of it your bathroom is too small.

A room with sinks (hairdressers) does not fall within the same rules as a room with a bath or shower (section 701)

Thermostat for the heating is ok if you mount it outside the zones (I am assuming it is mains voltage)

Regards Bruce

[Steve Walker]

For my thermostats (we have a timer/stat and motorised valve for every room), I've used interposing relays and powered them from a 12V ac safety transformer - this also means that I have been able to put most of the stats next to door frames and run alarm type cable to them, without having to worry about physical damage and resultant safety issues (three kids 5 and under!)

SteveW

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:35:27 +0100 someone who may be "Calvin Sambrook" wrote this:-

A room which contains a bath or shower (or both) is a bathroom for these purposes.

I'll second what has already been said, what are you reading?

There may be some confusion because until recently only extra low voltage sockets were allowed in rooms containing baths or showers [1]. However, now low voltage sockets [2] are allowed too, subject to the regulations which have already been mentioned.

[1] a low voltage socket which was permitted, then and now, is a socket fitted with an isolating transformer intended for feeding electric razors and toothbrushes. [2] for the avoidance of doubt, a 230V socket is a low voltage socket.

[Tim S]

BruceB coughed up some electrons that declared:

Agree - 3m is the rule and applies to en-suites in bedrooms with a shower or bath too, as well as all the RCD stuff.

Unless the OP wants to work to the german regs which I believe allow a shucko in the bathroom, under some random and probably very specific conditions...

Anyway - the thermostat. One solution here would be to put it in Zone 2 in a little enclosure that needs a tool to open) obviously with a few small vent holes - this is the stock solution for boilers in bathrooms AFAIK.

My last flat had a preset thermostat near the bath over the door (need to take the cover off to adjust). The other solution is as Steve said is to use SELV extra low voltage - or some of the Heatmiser products have remove sensors so the controller remains outside teh bathroom and the sensor is in a little box.

Cheers

Tim

[The Medway Handyman]

AAMOI does that mean that any socket in the room having the en suite must ne

3m away from the bath/shower?

[Tim S]

The Medway Handyman coughed up some electrons that declared:

Runs off to double check...

Yes that is correct in the 17th. Not allowed withing 3m or the edge of Zone

1, reg 701.512.3 according to the OnSite Guide.

This applies to any room containign a bath or shower. If you have a shower in your drawing room, then no sockets near it :)

Cheers

Tim

[BruceB]

Yes, with the exception of, for example, a shaver socket with isolating transformer. Regards Bruce

[Tim S]

Tim S coughed up some electrons that declared:

Crappy typos fixed:

[Calvin Sambrook]

OP here. Thanks for your help everyone. Just one small point, I assume a wall and/or a door negate the 3m limit, that is to say I can put a socket in the adjacent room right next to the door between the two rooms. That would put it about 30cm away from the shower but not in the bathroom so my understanding is that is OK?

All that means of course is that we'll end up with flexes trailed through the doorway in order to use the hairdryer/vacuum/clippers and they'll be even closer to the shower than they would otherwise have been. Arrggghhhh......

[Tim S]

Calvin Sambrook coughed up some electrons that declared:

It is my belief that a wall with a door forms a seperate "location" thus resets all the rules to default.

I'm about to mount a socket within 2m of a shower, which is one door away, and a socket within 1 foot of the bath, the other side of the wall, although there is an access hatch under the bath and next to the socket (door for gnomes), that would need a tool to open anyway. And it's under the bath, not in it...

A wall however, without a door and not fully closed off may be a "partition" in which case that does not negate the 3m rule but does alter it.

Can you draw an ASCII pic?

Yes

You can take an extension lead and sit in your swimming pool with a hairdryer. Doesn't make it a good idea though.

My hoover has a long enough lead to do the bathroom.

Can you not dry your hair in the bedroom opposite another mirror? Ditto clippers?

Cheers

Tim

[Mike Harrison]

Thought this would be a good time to share the pic I took of a an electric shower installation I saw in Rio recently :

at least it's only 120 volts...

[Tim S]

Mike Harrison coughed up some electrons that declared:

That would tickle your testicles...

What is it - and integral heater in the head? Wires look too weedy, especially at 120V.

[The Medway Handyman]

Now I'm confused Tim. In an earlier post you said the 3m rule applied to the romm having the ensuite.

So, just to be clear. If you have a bedroom with an en suite bathroom (with door) & the bath is 1m away from said door - can the bedroom have a socket within 2 metres of the en suite door?

[Tim S]

The Medway Handyman coughed up some electrons that declared:

Ok - my bad. I should have said ensuite with no door - but perhaps a partition wall.

Having an ensuite with a door just makes it a bathroom (location) off a bedroom (another location).

HTH

Tim

[The Medway Handyman]

All clear now matey - cheers.

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article , Calvin Sambrook writes

I'm in the throes of having my bathroom done. The contractor looked at me askance when I told him I wanted the washing machine in there. We argued the toss for a bit (him quoting the regs, me saying it's my bloody house and there's no room for it in the kitchen so it's going in there whether he likes it or not, and it's been in there for two years running off an extension cable anyway)

It will go next to a walk-in shower with glass sides.

He wasn't happy about it, but we settled on a RCD protected IP66 socket fed by SWA under the floor.

Probably not regs-compliant, but they don't seem to have a problem with it on the continent, do they?

[Tim S]

Mike Tomlinson coughed up some electrons that declared:

The other thing that can be done is to take the washing machine off an FCU flex outlet, removing the socket. You've dropped the regs onus from socket to "accessory" which is easier to satisfy. Well placed enclosures or cupboards can usually sort most things out.

But, as you've done it, I could think of worse ways than yours. No-one's likely to come a cropper by accident with an IP66 socket, inconveniently (from a hairdryer POV) sited under the floor, and RCD protection

[Mike Harrison]

Yep - these were very common in all the DIY stores - supplied with surprisingly short ( but fairly chunky) cables - typical rating was 3KW.

[Richard Russell]

One more reason (of many) why an ensuite with no door is a very bad idea....

Why do so many 'Grand Designs' have this arrangement?

Richard.