Reflecting cold

[Roger Chapman]

snip

I am no expert but to me Starboard 20 seems as likely as not to me to mean putting a 20 degree angle on the rudder rather than adding 20 degrees to the previous direction of travel.

[charles]

but, isn't the correct command "Left hand down a bit."?

[Roger Chapman]

Certainly not. the command, based on tradition, was 'port your helm'. ie push your tiller or steering oar over to the right. I don't know how they do it these days but at one time there would have been an emergency steering position on big ships for when the wheel was out of action. That might well be a bloody great tiller to which the wheel was connected by means of ropes and pulleys. No power assistance, just pulley multiplication.

[Roger Chapman]

Not is you are following up Starboard 20, that command would turn you to port.

[Davey]

But I was asking what order was given in order to turn the ship to starboard. Pushing your tiller or steering oar to the right would produce a portwards movement, whatever instruction was given to achieve it.

[Roger Chapman]

See how confusing it is. You have even got me mixing up left and right. Pushing the tiller to the right should have been starboard your helm. 'Port your helm' was the standard order to turn the ship to starboard. 'Turn to port' is the exact opposite, not that such an order would have been used way back when.

As I said up thread wheels don't turn left or right, they rotate. The Navy Lark was more accurate with its left hand down a bit.

[Sandy]

If my memory is correct the US Navy uses turn left and turn right as it's commands - seems eminently sensible to me.

[Jules Richardson]

Only the wet bits, presumably. :-)

[TonyB]

Then it became even more confusing. Some old ships I've seen do indeed have a tiller below decks which is controlled by ropes to the wheel above decks. In the event of the wheel being shot away or the ropes parting, a detachment of men would go below and steer using the tiller. Orders would need to be relayed from the command post above to the men below.

Clearly the order would need to be in the format "Port your helm" as the guys below couldn't see where they were going ( in fact they couldn't see anything in the darkness below decks ) and an order such as "Turn 10 degrees to starboard" or "Steer South by West" would have been useless.

TonyB

[TonyB]

Which way do they turn the wheel if they're in reverse and receive the command "Left turn" ?

Nah, typical naff yank stuff I'm afraid. In reverse, "Port your helm" is still a sound command.

TonyB

[Tim Streater]

That would certainly account for that form of the order. Especially as that method wasn't restricted to sailing ships that had their tiller ropes shot away. It also happened at the Battle of the River Plate, during WW2.

[Davey]

Knowing him, I wouldn't be too sure.......but yes, that is what is generally meant by the term. Does his land-yacht count?

[Davey]

We often observed that American drivers didn't understand that direction indicators worked if the car was reversing. But then, they were rarely used even if the car was going forward, and then usually as an indication of what had just happened.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

Oh, I say.

[Jules Richardson]

:-)

I think so - if it has a sail then using it is sailing, surely, even if no water is involved. (so I sould probably take back my comment about wet bits :)

[geoff]

In message , "dennis@home" writes

Back in your cage, you

Matron will be along shortly

[Bob Martin]

Full central heating was installed when my house was built in 1936.

[Davey]

Absolutely. Sailing is sailing, whether on land or water. Also, concerning 'the wet bits', that there are lots of lakes inside land masses. Just think of the Great Lakes of North America. And then there's ice-yachting, but he doesn't do that. He likes warm places!

[TonyB]

:-))

From the Association of British Drivers website:

"After a series of other accidents involving US personnel and their families, the USAF imposed a local no overtaking order on all personnel based at Lakenheath & Mildenhall."

TonyB

[Roger Chapman]

I have a vague memory that I can't put a date to of an American serviceman (in Scotland) I think who ran down and killed a native. He was prosecuted by the Merkins under the Visiting Forces Act and was let off lightly with little more than the proverbial slap on the wrist.

some examples and it is possible that the one I remember is the

1965 death of a child although it doesn't quite square with what I thought I had remembered.