Recycled Railway Sleepers

[Adrian]

All,

We're about to start on doing some major work to the back garden, including replacing a retaining wall (about 500mm). We were planning on using recycled railway sleepers for this, laid horizontally.

We knew there were certain caveats on these - something to do with the preservatives that had been used causing anybody that goes within a mile of 'em to grow three heads or something - but we're finding some of the people quoting are more than a bit reluctant.

We've heard that they're just plain illegal and unobtainable.

Then we've heard that they're illegal anywhere near where you may be growing food. We probably won't be, but there's a possibility there'll be a few veggies or more likely herbs in a bed bordered with them.

Now we've heard they're really not all that suitable, and likely to warp and not hold well.

Thoughts? Is it just that they don't much like the idea of lugging the bloody things through the house to the back garden but don't want to say so?

[BigWallop]

Old recycled sleepers are not really suitable for a garden where people are sitting on them, or making use of them as flower bed borders and veggie bed borders (if that's what you'd call them), because they were pressure treated and embedded with very strong chemical preservatives. These chemicals were known to cause skin irritation and sometimes cancers. They would also leak these chemicals into the surrounding soil and kill off the plants that were grown there. But that was the old recycled sleepers which I think are now illegal to sell to the general public for all those very reasons.

New sleepers are obtainable though, and these have not been given the strong treatment that the older ones got. These can be used quite safely for around the house uses. So you can have the newer ones without worries.

This site tells some more tales on them:

[Alan J. Wylie]

the comments about toxic preservatives in other replies to this question, does anyone have any comments on the furniture at ?

Are sleepers imported from tropical countries made from high quality hardwoods, and treated with nothing more unpleasant that creosote?

[Rick]

I have used railway sleepers ....

They can be joined by drilling 10mm holes throught them, and then hammeriing in 10mm rebar - this is hard work.

They stink - especially if cut, I ended up putting decking on mine to make seats and the like.

You can still buy them, they are about 20 quid each

I'd use bricks for this application

[Andy Dingley]

It's plug ugly, made from nasty wood ?

I admit I've made some of this stuff myself, but I don't _like_ this "timber brutalist" styling - even as bar fitting or lofts. We're so divorced from decent timber these days that we've forgotten what good furniture looks like. A bit of plasticy veneer from Ikea passes as "wood" and the horror that is "naughty pine" gets passed off as an antique. Then we see recycled outdoor timbers pretending to be quality cabinetry, sealed under a layer of sprayed lacquer to keep the smell and the oils in. I make _timber_framing_ that's more like cabinetry than this stuff. Get yourself to bath, or somewhere else with decent galleries full of 18th century work, and take a look at real craftsmanship in the best of materials.

(and yes, I've looked _very_ closely at Jarabosky's work in Camden)

As a general rule, UK sleepers are Australian Jarrah and were creosoted. Some are Rhodesian timbers. Anything older than that is probably pre-Beeching and you aren't going to find them now.

Creosote is pretty unpleasant. I cycle past a BT pole depot and on a good Summer's day I can start smelling it about 1/4 mile away.

[Mary Fisher]

Hear hear.

It's certainly brutal. It's creeping into mediaeval events too :-(

Well said.

Mary

[Andy Dingley]

How do you think oak should be finished for re-enactor events ? White, brown or black ? Personally I like my Stickley-style ammonia fumed work (mid-brown) but I've also made "Jacobean" work that's as back as I can get it. However both of these are anachronistic for "period" repro - that's not the colour such timber would have been when it was made.

Hollywood tends to disagree of course - "Shakespeare in Love" being one of the worst offenders. I haven't seen "Team Templars vs. bin Laden" yet

[Mary Fisher]

I don't! Except by a wax polish. Which I make and sell ...

But I was talking about the imported heavy thick dark planks which are assembled with 'wrought iron' parts and sold to the gullible public - not, as far as I know, to re-enactors. Even they know better.

*You* know that if you make a new piece of furniture it looks exctly as it would when it was new in whatever period it belongs in. A patina of dirt or whatever takes a long time to accumulate.

You probably also know that we don't have a telly so we don't see things, nor do we get to the pictures. When we've been 'treated' to films at others' houses we've cringed ... The most enjoyable was A Knight's Talebut that was probably because it was done as a spoof of period pictures. I was told.

Mary

[EricP]

There was one of those recycling in the home type shows on last year and they were going around showing what people had done.

One woman lived on the shore and collected driftwood. I have seen some stunning art made from this stuff. This woman made her kitchen cupboard doors from it. The turnip doing the show was purring about the stunning use of the wood for the doors. They were the raw driftwood tied together to roughly fill the carcase fronts. No attempt appeared to have been made to work them or even to get them to fit. They were what a 5 year old would make a "den" out of and looked like that. I wonder they didn't get put up for the Turner Prize.

I worried for months about being so far out of touch with art. Then I realised they were both turnips and felt better.

[Mary Fisher]

That's a completely different kettle of fish from trying to sell it.

Mary

[Danny Monaghan]

Adrian wrote in news:Xns9668EE1581B7Cadrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170:

have a look here:

gives you the details about the EU directive on railway sleepers.

You'd be better buying new TBH. I've just bought new tanilised softwood sleepers for £18 each to make a retaining wall for flower beds round the patio.

[Adrian]

Alan J. Wylie ( [e-mail]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

areas" - given that any sprogs in my back garden are likely to be trespassing...

[Adrian]

BigWallop (spam.guard@_spam_guard.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

They'd have a fence going straight up from the back, so not going to be the most comfortable seat. "Perch", possibly, but not really seat.

Mmm. Some of them were going to be for that.

Unless all the various websites are w-a-a-a-a-y out of date, it would seem they're still legal for sale. But obviously, they've got a vested interest in playing down any health risks.

Yes, but the newer ones aren't as thoroughly preserved, are some tatty softwood, and just plain don't have the "look" of the old ones...

"Areas where there is the risk of prolonged human contact. i.e. Retaining walls which people walk past all the time."

Mmmm. That's starting to sound likely.

[Adrian]

Danny Monaghan ( [e-mail]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Yebbut - and no offence to your undoubtedly lovely wall...

Just look at these :-

*Gorgeous*. Perfect. Imagine a wall four courses high, down one side of an

8m long x 4m wide paved courtyard garden. Lovely.

Now compare with these :-

yes, these ones do look terrible...) all this confusion, I was leaning towards getting Oak Grade A from

[Broadback]

I had 2 railway sleeper walls built a few years ago from reclaimed sleepers, which were creosoted red hardwood. Tough as they are it did not stop the wall from starting to collapse, the builders of this wall returned a couple of months ago an redid it under the supervision of a structural engineer. Now though these walls are almost twice the height of yours the interesting thing is that the engineer insisted that they were canted back a few degrees, might be worth thinking about. As regards problems I have (yet) suffered no ill effects, except in hot weather the creosote "bubbles" out and can get onto clothes etc. unless careful.

[Adrian]

Broadback ( [e-mail]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Yes, they were going to be.