What you stated was total balls. Those "professionals" who believe that should get a job on the milk. Plumbers should stick to drains and leave heating alone. There are three bathroom combis around.
Which is totally wrong as you know sweet nothing of the heating business. A non-condensing and condensing boiler is the same except for a larger heat exchanger and drain. The electronics are near identical in most cases. The Atmos doesn't need a drain connection.
So they have a cheap crap make installed. Put in a Vaillant, Atag, Geminox, Atmos, ECO-Homtec or Viessmann and see if BG turn up frequently.
And pay 30 to 40% more in fuel too.
As you know sweet FA about boilers and heating it is best to keep quiet, read and learn. All your points are wrong.
You made lots of totally inaccurate points and they were addressed. People may actually believe that tripe.
Old pipes? The pipes are fine. Have the system flushed properly. If the rads are so corroded that they leak when 1 bar pressure is inside them they are knackered anyway and are about to be holed and drip. Best replace them all at the same time, or those that hole. Fit a Magnaclean filter on the CH return pipe and insert inhibitor.
I will accept your response as you being in broad agreement with me about potential problems with old pipes(and radiators) in a system pressured for a Comb!.
And now -"I fitted a traditional Boiler and could do so because I live in Scotland. If you live in England you do not have that option because of
from a debate in the Caledonian Council where the responsible Minister is a= nswering a question from RedSheeri.
undreds of pounds a year to maintain. Many survive only half as long as the= ir traditional counterparts. They are technically complex, with many more t= hings that can go wrong than traditional boilers. It can add up to nightmar= ish bills.
2) The new systems cost upwards of =A3500 more on average than conventional boilers. And if the many letters from heating engineers are anything to go by, the boilers come with a hidden surcharge, so high that it can wipe out all the gains for the homeowner and the environment.
3) One major independent firm of plumbers said that over the past three to four years it has made thousands of call-outs to mend condensing boilers, and that the greenhouse gas emissions from its vans were probably greater than the savings made by the shift to eco-conscious boilers.
4) British Gas, which maintains 4m boilers under its Homecare scheme, admits condensing boilers are a "relatively new technology" and says numerous improvements have been required in the past few years. A spokesman says: "Condensing boilers are by necessity more complex in design than the more traditional products."
5) One reader wrote last year to Which, asking it to test condensing boilers. But the organisation says it has not tested the machines, which are complex and may have problems which might not appear for several years.
6) Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP): To ask the Scottish Executive whether not installing condensing boilers under its central heating installation programme will result in higher running costs for tenants and lower savings in energy and CO2 emissions in the future than would be the case if they were installed.
Jackie Baillie: It need not have this effect. The industry standard is the Seasonal Efficiency of Domestic Boilers in the UK database which categorises central heating systems by bands. Band D contains high efficiency non-condensing boilers with modulating burners which operate at efficiencies equal to condensing boilers. The similar performance of some condensing and non-condensing boilers was influential in deciding to specify a minimum annual seasonal efficiency of 78 per cent for gas fired boilers in the performance specifications for the Central Heating Programme.
s pop they are for
backlash on you. You don't have the intelligence to
Good designed and quality condensing boilers last when made by the Dutch and Germans and are one piece heat exchangers.
Jackie Baillie: It need not have this effect. The industry standard is the Seasonal Efficiency of Domestic Boilers in the UK database which categorises central heating systems by bands. Band D contains high efficiency non-condensing boilers with modulating burners which operate at efficiencies equal to condensing boilers.
This sounds like something from the last century. Some early condensing boilers (q.v. Potterton Envoy, introduced 1995) were bad news; the newer side and downfiring ones from suppliers such as Vaillant and Worcester are fine - my Vaillant-designed Glow-worm has run for 3 years without any attention. Condensing boilers don't now carry any real price premium. And Band D boilers have been outlawed in all but a few cases for nearly two years.
backlash on you. You don't have the intelligence to
I place before you a number of comments relating to Condensing Boilers extracted from Guardian. The final point is from the responsible Minister answering a question from Redsheeri.
1) Critics argue that condenser boilers malfunction easily and can cost hundreds of pounds a year to maintain. Many survive only half as long as their traditional counterparts. They are technically complex, with many more things that can go wrong than traditional boilers. It can add up to nightmarish bills.
2) The new systems cost upwards of =A3500 more on average than conventional boilers. And if the many letters from heating engineers are anything to go by, the boilers come with a hidden surcharge, so high that it can wipe out all the gains for the homeowner and the environment.
3) One major independent firm of plumbers said that over the past three to four years it has made thousands of call-outs to mend condensing boilers, and that the greenhouse gas emissions from its vans were probably greater than the savings made by the shift to eco-conscious boilers.
4) British Gas, which maintains 4m boilers under its Homecare scheme, admits condensing boilers are a "relatively new technology" and says numerous improvements have been required in the past few years. A spokesman says: "Condensing boilers are by necessity more complex in design than the more traditional products."
5) One reader wrote last year to Which, asking it to test condensing boilers. But the organisation says it has not tested the machines, which are complex and may have problems which might not appear for several years.
6a) Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP): To ask the Scottish Executive whether not installing condensing boilers under its central heating installation programme will result in higher running costs for tenants and lower savings in energy and CO2 emissions in the future than would be the case if they were installed.
b) Jackie Baillie: It need not have this effect. The industry standard is the Seasonal Efficiency of Domestic Boilers in the UK database which categorises central heating systems by bands. Band D contains high efficiency non-condensing boilers with modulating burners which operate at efficiencies equal to condensing boilers. The similar performance of some condensing and non-condensing boilers was influential in deciding to specify a minimum annual seasonal efficiency of 78 per cent for gas fired boilers in the performance specifications for the Central Heating Programme.
It could be that its down to you as a dynamic Combi/ Condensing Eco-warrior that I got my brand new guaranteed conventional Boiler for =A3150 post 1 April 2005. Perhaps I am one of the few who will ever gain anything from the greens and devolution.
Its been a absolute delight exchanging views with someone who knows everything but if you will excuse me I have to return urgently to Planet Earth.
"=A3150? A class act eh! ON the 1st April too. He saw you coming eh."
Not a 'HE' but a large Nationwide Builders and Plumbers Merchant.
"We will not with irresponsible polluting plantpots like you."
Just as I suspect another Red who has had a quick EcoGreen Respray.
"Go in peace and in ignorance And pay high bills"
I have a very efficient HIGH PERFORMANCE CONVENTIAL Boiler which will probably last 20-25 years. Perhaps you could explain HOW LONG I would need to pay Gas Bills to close the difference* between the =A3150 I paid and over =A31250 I would have paid had I bought a potentially troublesome Condensing Boiler with half the life of the Convential Boiler I have????
I only hope I live that long* but if I could live as long as this Boiler will function I'd be even happier.
Its all down what was stated by Jackie Baillie: It need not have this effect..... Band D contains high efficiency non-condensing boilers with modulating burners which operate at efficiencies equal to condensing boilers. The similar performance of some condensing and non-condensing boilers...
And don't worry about the current problems with Condensing Boilers I have no doubt a Scottish Engineer at some time in the future will find a way making it perform seamlessly.
It really has been a pleasure dealing with such a knowledgeable individual. I'll bet you are also very modest and humble!!
I have never encountered a discussion forum such as this I hope that you and the three or four who stay with it will enjoy each other. Goodnight and Goodbye.
The efficiencies are not equal: for wall-hung gas boilers used in most houses the least efficient condenser currently produced is the Malvern twentytwentysix at 86.5%; the most efficient non-condensor the Maxol Microsystem 402MDF at 79.9% (Data from SEDBUK boiler database issue
211: 18/12/2006). Virtually all makers have condensing models with a seasonal efficiency of 90%+
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