Re: Part P new wiring colours -more obfuscation

[Al Reynolds]

From:

"The new (harmonised) colour cables may be used on site from 31 March 2004. New installations or alterations to existing installations may use either new or old colours, but not both, from 31 March 2004 until 31 March 2006. Only the new colours may be used after 31 March 2006."

So you can use either colours for a two year period. Any alterations must be all in the same colour, but don't have to be in the same colour as the original installation.

I am doing exactly this at the moment. I am trying to only use new colours where I am replacing complete circuits, for the sake of simplicity, but this is not a requirement.

From:

"Alterations or additions to a single-phase installation do not require marking at the interface between old and new cabling providing that they are correctly coloured. However, a warning notice must be fixed at the distribution board or consumer unit."

An example notice:

suspect the clearest giveaway of wiring not having building control approval will be houses that have mixed colours but no sticker on the distribution board.

Al

[coherers]

Having been told by TLC that Part P (specifically in relation to the

> harmonised colours) will not come into force until 1st January 2006 > (got it right this time), I have just been told by another electrical > wholesaler that although Part P comes into force on 1st January 2005, > the harmonised colour requirement does indeed only come into effect on > 1st January 2006. This was confirmed by their supplier's > representative who happened to be doing his rounds at the time. > Assuming this to be true, does this mean only that Red & Black cable > cannot be sold after 1.1.06, or that it cannot be used (legally) on > new/extended/repaired/modified installations after that date? Are > there any other ramifications? > > I was also told that any installation that uses both old and new > colours must be marked to draw attention to this fact. Can anyone > quote chapter and verse of this requirement, and is it retrospective > (I will be using harmonised colours cable to upgrade part of an > existing installation and will finish before 1.1.2005). Can anyone > see the sense in this particular requirement? > > CRB

[dms1.go-plus.net]

Unlike part P there is a changeover time for the harmonisation for colours (or the worst stupid idiot idea to hit the UK)

Red and black was phased out by most electrical wholesalers earlier this year. How ever, on a new installation it is even now mandatory to use brown and blue. Especially in the case of a brand new installation.

However it will be illegal to use the old colours after 1st January 2006. In the meantime an amendment was made to BS7671 that a indelible label should be fitted to installations warning persons of either the mixed colours or that the new colours were installed on that particular installation. (We have to put one of these on every installation)

Personally its like saying that everyone passing their test will be able to drive on the other side of the road whilst those of us who have passed our tests will gradually change over to the new system. With regards to colours it is important to note that especially on 3 phase brown black and also grey are LIVE! God this country has gone mad!

With regards to Part P we strongly protest against it and out of 200,000 people in the trade there are not a lot for it. We have an e petition against Part P and so far we have over 20,000 legit registered e-votes.

More info can be found on

Regards John

[Andy Dingley]

All the other stupidities of this regulation pale into insignificance compared to the idea of a black phase.

[Stefek Zaba]

Not the way I see it. Firstly, there's no direct link between the ineffectual Part P and the adoption of Euro-harmonised colours. The sleight of hand used to "justify" part P (misstating stats on fatalities through fixed wiring) where the actual aim is bringing work out of the informal sector is the bit that gets up my nose most, closely followed by the disincentive created to doing the job right (trailing extension leads and adds-to-existing-circs in place of sensible upgrades).

If you read the stuff on the IEE website about cable-colour harmonisation, the reasoning's pretty clear: the UK is firmly out of sync with the rest of the EU having argued to retain red-n-black for fixed wiring when the original change to brown-n-blue went through about

20? years ago. Rather than face the arguments all over again as the exemption expired, the change for single-phase to be consistent with flex colours was accepted, for reasons of consistency both across the Single Market and within the UK between flex and fixed cable.

Then you're left with "what to do about 3-phase". Again the material on the IEE website from the CENELEC(?) consultation lays out the reasoning pretty clearly: there was considerable variation across Europe, but with a common theme of red and black in various mixtures, stripings, and the like being dominant. CENELEC were just about to plump for brown, black, black as the colours for the 3 phases (many, possibly most, countries left identification of phases to test gear rather than cable core colouring), and it was UK argument to preserve distinction among all three phase colours which won the day; grey being one of the few available colours which didn't clash dangerously with other countries' conventions. The "black as legit phase colour" idea stood *no* chance of being overturned, being dominant practice for at least one, often two or three, phases.

But hey, I'm just back from a day in Brussels with the Commission - so my allegiances are profoundly suspect anyway, right? ;-)

Stefek

[BigWallop]

Eurocrat ! :-)

[Stefek Zaba]

Shucks, you say the nicest things ;-) However, I don't think I qualify unless I'm paid for out of taxes; going on employer's/the-Greater-IT-Industry's business (and on the company's tab) makes me (I think) a corporate toadie ;-)

[Malc]

Isn't that what the transpondians use in their plugs? White and black IIRC.

-- Malc

[BigWallop]

Oh, I thought you went as a ministers aide. So, your just a worker then. :-))

[BigWallop]

What's all the fuss? The black is now blue. The yellow is now grey. The red is now brown. White is normally used in control wire situations or, properly marked, as a separate individual live or negative supply.

I think? :o) LOL

[Steve Walker]

And if you've got three phase, with both old and new cabling, you'll have a blue that's phase in one part and neutral in the other and a black that's neutral in one part and phase in another - it's all so easy :)

Steve W

[Richard]

I wish I had shares in MEM fuses.......