Re: OT: Why you should not use Windows : issue 1

[T i m]

Well, I don't think any 'normal / reasonable' person would say I had 'no idea' about Linux' but I'm no geek that's for sure and have a full and happy life outside 'computers'.

Well, yes and no ... something I tried to explain but many of the Linux nutjobs aren't interested in hearing anything other than their own warped involvement in an OS. So, did I *want* to Learn Linux, like learning to speak French or growing Bonzi trees, no, I certainly didn't, in just the same way I didn't want to learn DOS, OS/2, Windows or OSX. Whatever I learned I would learn during my use of such OS along the way, just in the same way that people have learned stuff over millennia. Just because you and your kind couldn't understand that wasn't my problem. An OS is a means to an end, especially to this 'hardware guy'.

Aw bless. I bet you are one of those people who writes into the Television company rather than just turning the thing off.

No, in many cases the 'help' being given didn't help, because it was the same sort of broken solution as Linux itself to me (and all those who weren't geeks / programmers).

BS. I tried everything offered me, always, sometimes to good effect. Luckily the records will prove just how much (and how typical) your lying is.

Nope, almost all the Linux fanatics ignored me which was perfectly fine by me. It didn't stop them talking and lying about me of course. That then left me to have reasonable discussions with reasonable people, just as you will find me doing on all sorts of newsgroups ... till you come up against some Linux geek on some sort of crusade of course ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Better TEN YEARS later than Windows than never eh?

Ironically, it seems 'up to par' for the VAST proportion of the population who use it with no issues every day. Do you think I would use it if it was reliable or didn't do what I wanted. Feck, even TNP uses it because he can't use Linux for some things. The only difference between TNP and I is he is a hypocrite, hates Windows and is now a Linux advocate. Like smokers who then stop, they are often the worst.

You 'read that' did you?

Why shouldn't they use something that was free and suited to the task if they want?

You seem to be very interested in Microsoft? If only I was ... but then I'm not interested in any OS, OS supplier or any of the politics behind it. I just use what works and like trying different solutions on my hardware now and again (to see if the grass is greener etc).

Cheers, T i m

[The Natural Philosopher]

ER no. Apparently they are going to run Linux in the cloud..

[Tim Streater]

Should be " ... TNP and me ... "

Blimey, all these posts and this is only issue 1.

[T i m]

I'm sure it should but who knows what it will be the next time I type it. ;-)

I'll not feature in any subsequent issues that's for sure.

What do they say, 'It's like wrestling with pigs ...'.

Cheers, T i m

[John Rumm]

From Win 8 onwards, yes.

Its more capable, but somewhat esoteric I find...

[John Rumm]

Its a bit of a self selecting group though - you will only generally want to bring your own, if it differs from the standard corporate offering.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well I would have given my eye teeth to have Linux Mint instead of Win4WFG, and WIN95 back in the day. Support nightmares.

But today I am actually not that bothered. I just want Linux to be given a fair hearing so that people can make up their minds.

Its now encroachji9ng in the 'consumers space' as well as everywhere else, and I don't want people telling lies about it.

THis isnt mumsnet, this is UK.d-i-y and that means one expects a certain amount of skill and intelleigence.

NO, MInt is aiming at the adventurous user who is sick of Windows ..

Look you can be like the climate advocates who scream '97% of scientists say...so it MUST be true' but that is I am afraid merely Bandar Log logic.

Windows success is not an indication of quality, nor a recommendation for its use, unless you are so feeble minded that being one of the crowd is more important than getting the job done.

Well Ive spent nearly an hour today trying to help you.

When Repetier couldn't support you properly.

Strange how once they have your money they dont care, and I will never have your money and I do.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Really in a sense that is true. Like many users all I generally do is write - blogs, usenet, emails and code. So yes, it is a glorified typewriter, a bit of a TV set, and occasionally something I use to compile code on. It runs skype as well, I have some games I play..very normal user in fact. I edit pictures and videos a bit, and rip DVDs for my online library.

And apart from compiling code, I don't go near the command line.

The point being that actually, I don't, I run it using Virtualbox/XP or wine under Linux So it cant crash or infect my whole computer.

And all that proves, is that the world hasn't caught up with linux yet.

Not that windows is 'better'

IN the end your argument boils down to 'I have stuff that only works on windows so I run windows' and mine boils down to 'I have stuff that only runs on windows, So I run linux with Wine and XP in a VM, because its a far better experience than native windows'.

[T i m]

Yes, but it wasn't available then was it? It's all very well being happy with something when it exists. ;-)

Agreed, and ironically, that's what I've been doing all along by offering it to people. However, if they *want* say iTunes I'm not going to presume to *tell* them they *should* be using something else.

Also, I really don't think blindly defending Linux against all it's well known and well documented issues helps it's progress at all (as you were doing with me).

And again, I agree 100% but you really must (for the good of Linux) try to learn the difference between someone who would genuinely *like* to use Linux (or at least have the option to, all be it with the same casual approach to Linux as any other OS they use) and someone who is just dissing it for dissing it's sake. What you (and the Linux fanboys on the Linux n/g) were actually doing is trying to hide the truths (often by attacking people who were at least giving it a go), rather than openly accepting them and trying to offer solutions or work around's to their *real* problems.

Ah, again may I suggest that is a false assumption (to some degree). You can't go round calling people idiots and at the same time saying that 'Linux is easy' (just because you find it so) when the people who are legitimately struggling trying to get something going in Linux that they can easily get going on Windows or OSX.

Again, no, when they say 'You can run it alongside Windows'. See, even they realise they aren't going to win anyone over with this black and while, all or nothing approach. Let people get used to it slowly and give them an out, should something not work on Linux but they can still do on Windows (/OSX).

I'm not sure what that means mate?

Never *ever* said it was. However, whilst it is the defacto-standard, any alternatives *have* to offer the intended demographic at least the same and ideally better user experience than what they are currently using.

For which I am very grateful. It's also much better than suffering your abuse when I've only been telling it as it is (for me) all along.

To be fair, I've not contacted them on the matter as yet because I assumed it was just something I'd done wrong (as I got it working the first time round).

Who is this? Repetier or Microsoft? AIH, neither have had much money from me. ;-)

Cheers, T i m (and thanks again).

[T i m]

I'm not sure we all do and some (most) don't know but don't care either, even if it was.

But whilst that popularity has come about to some degree simply 'because'

You wouldn't need anything to attract women ... admitting to being a 'Linux geek' should be enough. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

I guessed. ;-)

Exactly, little of which (excepting say a webcam for Skype or the drivers for the TV card, both of which I have got and installed on Linux ) involves interfacing external stuff, like 3D printers or GPS's, OBD diagnostic tools, Endoscopes etc etc.

And it seems I'm having to go near the CLI more than anyone only using Linux as a typewriter / web-terminal (and why I have been having 'more' issues than most). I have also possibly installed, or tried to install Linux on more machines than most, as I go to try it on any hardware I'm testing.

No, the 'point is' you are actually running XP, be it on a VM or not, because you *have to* to get the Windows programs you *need* running. I'll give you that with WINE it's not quite as much of Windows as Windows in a VM. ;-)

No, you are back to the tail wagging the dog. For people to want Linux (on the desktop) it has to offer ordinary people a better and as-complete experience than all the alternatives. What is a bit of a shame is there may well be plenty of people who could be happier running Linux who have simply never even heard of it.

Everyone who has met me has heard of it and many have seen it running (because of me). ;-)

Never said that (in general). I might be considered 'better' (than Linux specifically here) by the many million (billions) of people who do like and use iTunes (for example).

Alongside Linux, OSX and Android, yes.

Yes, but the strange thing is at the same time as *having* to run Windows to do some of the things you need and want to do, you diss it?

That comes across as a bit strange to me. Ok, I'm not saying you should love it (it's just an OS after all) but you cannot deny that it serves a purpose for you and it would be difficult to do without.

No one holds that against you BTW, (many of us use multiple OS's for their own advantages) but we don't generally diss one that we rely on?

Cheers, T i m

[The Natural Philosopher]

You really are lazy aren't you?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Good grief. Its you that are strange. If I have to walk through mud in my gumboots to take the dog for a walk, and I hate the mud because it sticks to my boots, is it that strange?

Windows may be a necessary evil, but that doesn't make it a good.

[T i m]

No, sorry, what I am is 'not really interested', you really should learn the difference. ;-)

See, it's all down to what's important and it didn't matter what you were talking about as it wasn't going to make any difference to anything.

This is not me being disrespectful, this is me being honest in the hope that it will both help you understand and help you save time in the future.

If you want to make an analogy with me (especially when it might be less than complementary), please use cars or something I don't have to look up. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

No, but having use of a footbridge, even though you are afraid of heights and doing so lessened the chance of you getting your feet wet or not crossing the river (then moaning about having to cross using a bridge or dissing 'bridges') is more like what you are actually doing.

Never said it was (or that you should say it was). Did you know there were other colours that black and white? ;-)

Cheers T i m

[Clive George]

It's definitely there on the servers, I think it's there on the desktops by default. It's on mine, and I don't remember explicitly installing it.

CMD? Use TCC/LE instead. Though CMD in windows has got better over time. Or type "powershell" - it's a lot different though.

[Clive George]

For their switches, yes, a small part of it. The hypervisors are still windows (albeit customised), the apps are generally windows too (don't know if there are exceptions).

[Chris French]

In message , Tim Streater writes

Powershell was installed here as part of the default Win 7 install.

According to the wikipedia page,

Powershell 2.0 is included in Win7 and Win server 2008

Powershell 3.0 in win 8 (and I presume 10) and server 2012. It can be downloaded for Win7/server 2008

[The Natural Philosopher]

You are becoming very troll like

"I'm not sure what that means mate?"

In English, that question mark means you are asking a question.

If you were not interested, why ask?

No, its you pretending to be one thing and being quite anotyher.

In short its classic troll behaviour

You are very near being plonked