Re: [OT] Car insurance craziness

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Myth 1) Any newsreader is in any way responsible for what anyone posts.

Bottom posting must be a term coined by top posters who don't understand why top posting doesn't work very well. Bottom posting is just as silly as top posting.

No historical newsreaders ever forced any type of posting, just like no current ones do. That deficiency has always been the human, not the tool.

Microsoft doesn't have that word in its company dictionary.

There are no rigid rules. People have spent time working out how to communicate effectively. That's where the guidelines come from.

If you count mistakes as negative numbers, this post of yours is probably nearly -100%.

The context is part of that. Try moving all my comments to the top of this posting and then appending your original underneath. That would be a really silly thing to do, wouldn't it?

Order is necessary, and is the reason this newsgroup has survived as a useful resource when many haven't (uk.legal probably being the biggest loss in the uk newsgroups).

My time to wade through loads of irrelevant nested quoted text means I'll likely just skip that article.

Struggling ISP's have just let their news service fall to bits.

That, like no snipping, is just another form of incorrect snipping.

It's kind of Dawinistic. Feel free to try a change. If it works, people will take to it.
I find top posting very useful -- it gives me a an instant impression of the poster without me having to bother reading a word, which depending to some extent on the newsgroup, is usually very accurate. This is more true in computer related newsgroups, but holds in most technical newsgroups including this one.

I assume you want those following the thread to do so or you wouldn't bother posting.

It must be terrible to lead a life where you are ashamed of what you say. The credibility of anyone who tries to hide their identity is pretty non-existant, and consequently their contributions start from a much lower value base.
BTW, I found out after getting my current job that that my usenet postings were a significant factor in me getting it, so it was a good thing my employer could identify me on Usenet.
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ag> Microsoft doesn't have [standard] in its company dictionary. Of course they do. It's defined as `something you make up for a joke on a slow Friday afternoon after a liquid lunch then have to pretend makes sense for the next decade' .
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You ignore the stark reality that if in any society you decide to do something which annoys most people in that society then you cannot be surprised if their reaction is not favourable to you. If you WANT to communicate in that society you need to conform to the norms. Of course if you don't want to communicate you are free to piss people off and then be subsequently ignored.
All the rest of the stuff I snipped is not relevant to this simple fact. I don't like reading replies that are top posted, I am much less likely to respond to or take notice of top posted replies. I am not alone in this, if you don't like it then tough.
Peter
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"Capitol" wrote | Myth 4) Snipping is always necessary. | 1) Memory and bandwidth are now such that snipping is totally unnecessary | in a top posting system.
Perhaps in this, and other developed countries. In less-developed countries bandwidth is still a rare and expensive commodity.
However, clear snipping and posting order are essential to readers using assistive technology such as text-to-speech or tactile output. Reading those forms of output is much slower than skim-reading a visual screen, so unneccessary content should be removed. Most newsreaders are optimised for top-posting and correct quoting.
| 2) Maybe we can get some of our readers back to work if we all try to use | more bandwidth and force telecomm companies to increase their capacity!
Only if someone (we) are prepared to pay for it.
| 3) Snipping can on occasions distort the reasoning of the participants.
It shouldn't, if done correctly. It helps following an argument, because clear snipping and interleaving comments means there is no doubt about to which part of a post a poster is responding.
Owain
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Capitol wrote:

Your figures are from what source? I'd be very surprised if it was anything like 98% in *this* group judging by the UA strings I've seen.

Read one of my replies to EssJay; Mozilla is *bottom* posting by default but with an option to top post, mainly for use with e-mail where company policy dictates this.

ROFLMAO. I don't know what you're smoking but I'd stop it, it's causing brain damage.
[remaining pointless ramblings snipped]
I suggest you go and read RFC1855 "Netiquette Guidelines"
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html section 3.1.1, particularly the para beginning "If you are sending a reply to a message".
Also read http://www.usenet.org.uk/ukpost.html particularly section 3.1, first bullet point, and section 3.2
These are the rules of Usenet (the latter being specific to the uk.* hierarchy). Now these rules aren't enforced by law so no-one's going to lock you up for not following them but this is how the Internet works, by users voluntarily adhering to agreed rules (mainly RFCs), and people that don't adhere to them will get grief.
There is a mechanism to change these rules (RFDs I believe) so if you really believe that top-posting should become the standard then you, or maybe Microsoft, should propose a change to RFC1855.
This particular group has a rather basic charter but some, e.g. uk.comp.os.win2000, have more comprhensive charters. The one for u.c.o.win2000 expicitly forbids top-posting. See http://www.usenet.org.uk/uk.comp.os.win2000.html#uk.comp.os.win2000 (they refer to it as "upside down quoting").
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parish wrote:

Would that be because the norm in the paper office is to place the latest correspondence on the top of a file.

"Guidelines" that says it all!
Steve R
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But even if it was, the latest *post* in a thread goes to the top of the list - unless that's something else OE screws up.
Nor have I ever seen a memo where all the previous correspondence on the subject is copied - either on top or below.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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Huge wrote:

If you have never used it how do you know it's crap? Was SWMBO allowed a choice or did you just do it with out asking because you know best?

That surely is subjective!
Steve R
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Huge wrote:

Fuck I whish I was as good as you :~(

I think you need to get your head out of your arse.
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Huge wrote:

And you are ...........................?
Steve R
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Dave Plowman wrote:

Steve R
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Only a small number of them.
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*Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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Dave Plowman wrote:

And before you ask I read parts of it that were pertinent to me that day, only last week
Steve R
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Never. But I have an up to date copy of the Highway Code here.

Well, go through it and see which parts are rules and which recommendations. I'll give you a clue - those bits which are backed by law are printed in red, and say MUST/MUST NOT
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 00:41:43 +0100, Dave Plowman

In a court of law the prosecution would tend to use the information in the highway code, regardless of whether it was legislated or not.
If you think about it a "law" is a rule by which we are expected to abide in our civilised society, it says "this is right, that is wrong", essentially.
So if it's in the highway code then the emphasis is on it being the correct practice to use in a given situation. Do something else and you might find yourself on the wrong end of a prosecution case.
Andrew
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You can't be prosecuted for breaking a law that doesn't exist. However, if you were involved in an accident, say, where you'd ignored the rules of the HC that aren't law this could be taken into consideration.
It's all explained in the HC introduction.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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Andrew McKay wrote in message ...

Boy, that thread was good!!! Regards Capitol
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Capitol wrote:

Posting style isn't a protocol; OE merely puts the cursor at the top when replying to a post. Ctrl-End will shift it to the bottom.

I fail to understand the logic of that statement. In NGs like this one posts tend to be question and answer sessions so if you top post then the answer appears before the question - have you ever seen a FAQ written that way?

In my experience, when you use Google groups the matches are often in the middle of a thread and, if they are top posted, then you have to scroll down to read what it is a reply to.

It isn't that the *newsreaders* can't *cope* with top posting, it's the people who don't like it. It certainly isn't a minority taste; quite the contrary in fact. In the majority of Usenet groups top posting is frowned upon.

With respect Capitol, Microsoft is *not* the standard. The Internet is a platform-independent. OS-independent, hardware-independent medium; no-one owns it, the standards are defined by agreement, e.g. RFCs and the W3C (of which MS is a member).
Asserting that OE is the standard for news is the same as those who assert that Internet Explorer is the standard for the Web and code webpages full of IE-specific code that doesn't display properly, or at all, in other browsers. Now, if they are just their own personal webpages, then they are free to do that, but if they are coding webpages for commercial sites (by which I mean sites that are selling on-line) then they stand to lose business for that company (as am example, Argos has lost business from me because their site only worked in IE - it now works in all browsers). They may (and do) argue that non-IE browsers only account for 5% of web users (a figure that is doubtless wildly inaccurate) but I bet you'll not find a bean counter in the world who would shrug their shoulds at lost revenue and say, "it doesn't matter, it's only 5%".
I have read, on more than one occassion, people with the view that MS is the standard (for the web) make statements like, "stuff the W3C; MS sets the standard", which shows an incredible ignorance of what the web and the W3C is. MS is one of many companies and groups who ratify the standards for the Web and IE, since v5, has supported these standards.
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And I had better post just to get xnews into this thread :-)
Rod
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and strn.
Bet there are not many people still using that :-)
Darren
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