The answer was given in reply to a Parliamentary question about a year ago and as I recall is about 2 to fixed wiring and the rest to something plugged in. At the moment I can't find the Hansard link to it but I'll post it when I have time to look.
As was widely predicted at the time the number has of course increased since Part P came into being.
Thanks.
Indeed.
Very probably.
Yes they have, it is called Time deteriorating old installations.
People are no longer fixing problems.
- Lead sheathed TRS cable still exists (sheath can become live)
- TRS cable is still very common (rots)
- PVC sheath with polyethylene insulation is still in use (goes brittle)
- FTE-thro-hosepipe or direct in ground to sheds still in use
Cowboys are still making problems.
- Kitchen fitters in particular still "play with cables"
- True even when an electrician was there first re cabinets second
Whilst deaths may not show much change, I suspect fires will increase. Likewise I expect installations to become less reliable - particularly those belonging to elderly who have aged installations (typically
35yrs) which in the past were maintained by relatives. I know of 2 installations with lead sheathed TRS near me and that whole run of very aged houses have never been rewired since pre WW-II.Walking yesterday I watched someone using a massive Karcher on a fully coiled extension lead, probably not enough to melt the cable over
20mins, but not exactly "over 720W must be fully unwound". That's because Part P stops them fitting a socket outside - the DIY outside socket kits "by the letter of the law" are not legal because it is a fixed installation even if connected by a plug, the docs even cite this workaround. Indeed if they didn't you could just fit a BS4343 Interlocked Switch 125A socket & plug to connect an entire house to the grid (until you see the size of them, quite funny... Wow! Tonka Made *Plugs* Too!). Ironically in the LONG term they will create statistics indicating that fixed wiring IS a problem by the legislation preventing people maintaining (upgrading) it! For example not fitting RCD protection where it might be of use to elderly, for example old electric blankets, toasters, kettles, cookers etc.
I myself would break away Hall and put it on Smoke (£25).
almost everything.
But that is so simple and such a good idea.
All that is needed is a dual RCD CU (not the minimum standard 17th edition CU) that has at least one space that is non RCD protected to allow an RCBO to feeds the hallway light and the smoke and any interlinked smokes.
The beauty is that the smoke detector is usually in the hallway.
Adam
A less visible knock on will also be increased deaths from trips, falls, scaldings etc. as people are put off from doing necessary work and use extension leads near stairs, in kitchens etc. These of course won't register as electrical deaths.
Fortunately I get the impression that the general populous is not that aware of part P anyway - but it will obviously have some effect.
I'm with Owain on the DIY front, but if I've decided to fork out and get someone else to do something, I damn well want a proper job out of it.
Pete
So if wasn't for Part P he'd be fitting an outdoor socket? Given that he obviously has a limited understanding of things electrical by not uncoiling the lead, perhaps Part P is saving him from himself.
Actually I suspect that the number of people who haven't done something that they could have done in a competent manner because of Part P is tiny.
Crap. There are things I would do now such as fitting a safer CU with twin RCDs and possibly RCBOs, but I'm holding it off for the moment.
Have you never forgotten to fully unwind an extension lead? I have, yet I admit I should have known better at the time. I've also known my partner to do the same, and on this point I would agree with you, she would not understand its significance, yet I can assure you, she wouldn't attempt to fit in an external socket!
Tend to agree. When 'they' bring in legislation as stupid as this I just ignore it. And I'd guess I'm not alone.
Not necessarily.
There seem to be 3 camps re extension leads
1 - Believe instructions are junk mail 2 - Believe you can not use extension leads for high current 3 - Believe you must unwind if high currentOf those #2 seems the most common, perhaps because some MIGHT have read the destructions for washing machine or microwave or fridge which says "do not use on an extension lead".
I disagree.
- UK historically has an active DIY electrical market
- UK historically has a significant non-spark market
- UK limit for DIY is typically major kitchen/bathroom work
Re Part P there seem to be 3 clear camps: #1 - People incorrectly heard of Part P (many)
- Via neighbour, kitchen fitter, handyman, painter, decorator, carpet fitter, electrical store, DIY store, electrician friend, estate agent, letting agent, gas fitter, plumber, electrician, friends at work, any time they are seen carrying anything of fixing wiring accessory near a DIY store with hoody sparks about :-) Even at wholesalers and places like screwfix who don't want to upset the teeth-sucking sparks kicked out of industrial because they pissed off the CoW too many times.
- Without exception they all hilariously believe SI2004 is the law.
Ironically the only place which gets SI2006 correct appears to be anyone at B&Q.
#2 - Many who have never heard of Part P, SI2004 or SI2006
- Might know they should use an RCD for lawn mower etc
- Might check with an electrician who will immediately cite SI2004 even carrying a copy of the relevant literature of that time
#3 - Those via profession/interest bothered to find out
- Competent to not only DIY but also know about SI2006
So you think it might discourage the idiots? Unfortunately not because they a) don't know b) don't care. All it does is provide a means to catch the crooks.
Personally I think as #1 shows the gold-plated-profit opportunity of SI2004 seems to have created a NEW type of semi-professional or professional cowboys who can now obtain contract & money they previously could not.
#1 is also fuelled by an element of grievance where someone has "had to pay" someone re "SI2004 is the law" when another person is seen doing it themselves and thus a) denying them the job or b) bypassing what they had to pay. That can create quite a nasty environment until someone eventually corrects them.
Since smoke has to be on RCD/RCBO to comply with 17th (unless wired in =A3128/100m BS8436!) it can be argued that combining "regularly used" lights such as Hall-Only makes an ideal combination - particularly if combined with an EmLight.
Many say smoke should not be on RCD/RCBO.
- I would counter by saying that quite a few smoke alarms are difficult to dismount from their fittings - such that damage and exposure of live terminals is not impossible (and whilst up a metal stepladder). I had forgotten how to get the AICO units off, idiot embossed white text rather than a simply "push here" or "slide out tray for 9V battery", sufficient to have mangled the side pattern due to an oversize screwdriver rather than super slim type.
- Even more stupid is the "hush" button which is unmarked & difficult to press. Too much vested commercial interest in "create lots of installed base iterations before we release one which has a remote STFU for 10min hush button". Replacing 5 Aico 141etc with 164RC & Hush switch is around =A3225.
Except in Scotland, where they have (had) the same shelf-edge decals about Part Pee as used in England.
Owain
Because of Part P? If you're competent, have got the time and money, then not to do it and improve you/your family's safety makes no sense. In my old home in the UK I replaced the CU, installed/moved numerous sockets and light fittings, put in an outside socket etc ... and got a Periodic Inspection Report before I sold up for my own peace of mind. Not a query from the buyer.
No DIY electrics here though - all fixed installation work has to be done by a card-carrying pro.
No, the number being electrocuted.
Because it was predicted (and it appears to be the case) that people are putting off things like adding more fixed sockets as many electricians increased their prices for such work when P was introduced and now regularly try to gold plate simple jobs by trying to do extra unnecessary work such replacing consumer units making quite false "new regulations make your house illegal" claims.
That's the problem, the increase in electrical devices has led to greatly increased use of extension leads and suchlike which are nowhere near as safe as fixed wiring. Far from reducing risk Part P increased it.
Nice to have that confirmed by someone who knows their stuff. There will always be a conflict of interests when the enforcer of the regulations is the one who profits from the compliance. If the govt regulates, it has to be more involved in the whole process, as it is with MOT certificates.
The message from Tony Bryer contains these words:
So if you've changed the CU, installed numerous sockets and light fittings in your previoius home, was that pre-Part P -- or if not, what do you refer to as "all fixed installation work?"
The message from Peter Parry contains these words:
Have you ever seen the typical installation in houses/shacks in African townships? CU with a couple of BS546 15amp sockets (or as they would have it SABS 164 16amp sockets) built in, high up near the ceiling in the main room and extension leads with powerstrips trailing through the shack from there, one piggy-backed on to another. It may comply with the law -- but is it safe and is it wise?
With the result that deaths increased and the Australian Gov't refuses to reveal the truth without application under the Freedom Of Information Act (dead baby being the most famous, but there are others).
There was a UK plan to significantly reduce the fees.
Even so that still leaves some bizarre situations -- 1) "warranty is an option from our members" -- 2) registered entities need not comply with BS7671 or a named standard, it need merely be safe in the eyes of a court (might as well scrap BS7671 and make it up as they go along)
-- 3) loading of standards both innocently & dishonestly for enhancement remuneration as Peter Parry notes.
I recall 2008 winter saw 35,000 extra deaths from the cold? Exactly how many domestic fixed wiring deaths were there? I guess if we burn all the bureacracy we would reduce the death toll.
It may not comply with the law re piggy-backed...
- Is there RCD protection - may not be required legally
- Is the cable sufficiently sized - re CCC
- Is the EFLI within limits re length - may be negated if RCD
Then it comes down to trip hazard and fire hazard.
- Fire is mainly re risk of plugs being damaged or partly engaged
- Secondary risk is flood on ground connectors
I'd be happy with it if some conditions met...
- Electrical - RCD protected, 1.5mm cable, screw-in plugs & sockets (Clipsal series 56), daisychain via screw-in plugs
- Trip hazard - cable clipped over hooks
For what I mean re Clipsal series 56, type "IP66" into screwfix's dumb website. The sockets take 13A screw-in plugs and when no plug is present the lid provides splashproof (not pushed home) or IP66 (good as practical). Then look at the price and realise that isn't going to happen in Africa (or most other places!).
You could make an argument for 110V (55V-0-55V), but that limits total current draw and requires GFCI etc.
Extension leads are fine in MK Duraplug & 1.5mm H07RNF, ideally with RCD (1.5mm for a bit of safety re any cushions or furnishings over the cable re thermal derating compared to 1.25mm only being required for
13A unless the cable is very long).
Probably not, but given the overall mortality rates in Africa they probably aren't too worried about the occasional electrocution either.
Owain
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