A couple of years ago when I was refitting the kitchen the local B&Q didn't have any gas fittings (plenty of fires / boilers etc.). The assistant I spoke to said it was because of the "regulations". Went last week for some bits for the bathroom and lo and behold all the gas fittings had re-appeared! Perhaps they found out that people still wanted to buy these bits to make interesting wall hangings or something? Richard
IME there are two reasons that assistants, assistant managers and managers always give for not providing customer service:
1) Regulations 2) InsuranceOfficious application of (1) once prevented me from taking safety razors on board a SleazyJet flight, even though said items had been bought air-side at Heathrow T4 the week before (and well after US attacks).
(2) prevented me from being able to get a long board cut down at one of the sheds so that it would fit in the car. They wouldn't lend me one of their saws, and wouldn't even let me cut it in the car park if I bought a cheap saw. I got a refund immediately, and the next day was allowed to do exactly what I wanted to do at a local timber yard.
My local electrical warehouse say they're not unduly worried about the effects of the new regs, and will continue to sell anything to anyone unless they are specifically prohibited from doing so by law.
cheers Richard
-- Richard Sampson
email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
How were they going to manage that? Bigger saw? More saws? I don't believe there would be enough hands in the shed. Couldn't you relocate to the next store's parking area? And if the worst came to the worst it would still need to be cut down to fit in the police car. Otherwise no evidence.
Alan
perhaps I wasn't too clear in that sentence.
Couple of years ago bought a long board. got out to car park, discovered couldn't fit it in car.
went back in store... Me: "Is there anyone that can cut this down for me?" Them: "no - insurance and health & safety". Me: "can I borrow a saw and cut it myself?" Them: "no - insurance and health & safety". Me: "ok, I'll buy a cheap saw and cut it myself in the car park." Them: "no - insurance and health & safety". Me: "here's the board back. I'll have a refund please."
quite frankly the officious person that I was arguing with would have probably followed me out if I'd bought a saw. However, I wasn't about to waste time, expense and effort in finding out at the time.
cheers Richard
-- Richard Sampson
email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
to my MP, making a few salient points about the probabilities relating to electrical casualties which take place:
I made several other points as well, for good measure offering the following:
I would encourage others to write to their MP. It will almost certainly achieve very little, but like a trained dog the more times an MP hears something the more obedient he becomes towards sorting something out. Don't forget that MP's aren't persuaded so much by the quality of the mail they receive, but by the weight of the postal sack containing the same message over and over again.
Andrew
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Only if they make "trees" with unfused 2-way adaptors. All three-ways (since I can remember) and trailing gangs are protected by a 13A max fuse.
This regs change won't make a blind bit of difference to that. In fact, it could exacerbate the problem as (as I read the proposal) DIYers are specifically prohibited from circuit modifications that involve RCDs or similar protective devices. This prohibits a DIYer from adding an RCD-protected spur to a non-RCD downstairs ring feeding an external socket with the purpose of discouraging outside use of non-protected inside sockets.
Eh? Don't quite follow the logic or relevance here. You'll still be able to add new sockets and spurs to the ring, and you'll still be able to change/add light fittings.
If you have to pay a spark to do this then your payment to him/her will come out of already taxed income. The spark will have to pay tax on the profits of this work, so the Chancellor will probably be quids in. Oh, and if you have to go to a larger firm (as a result of the certification requirements & expense) then you'll be paying VAT on the transaction as well.
However, glad you've written to your MP though.
cheers Richard
-- Richard Sampson
email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
I wrote to mine again a couple of days ago. (I wrote originally during the consultation last year.)
I don't know the details but AIUI you have to be a card carrying electrician to work on fixed wiring in Australia. IIRC there are two grades: one can do all the roughing in of cables, but only the higher grade is allowed to do the terminating at fittings.
The reality is that there are people out there (both DIY and 'professional') who should not be let anywhere near electrics but this does all look like sledgehammers to crack nuts. If it is really thought that there are lurking hazards it would make more sense to insist on a safety test when a property is sold.
Not unless they've changed it recently. They did what we should have done -- brought it under building control so BS7671 becomes mandatory, but not imposed all the stupid paperwork and cost overheads.
Like those hand-pumped hydraulic shears they have for cutting chain. The blades are surrounded by a perspex shield (so you can only just get the chain in) and a big sign saying that it is a dangerous machine and it is only to be operated by staff.
When I wanted some chain I couldn't see any staff around (no surprise there) so set about doing it myself. A memeber of staff appeared then (how do they do that?) and told me I couldn't do it myself (so why are they called DIY stores?). I pointed out that I have setup 100-ton power presses and 3-metre long shears capable of cutting 6mm plate so I reckon I can handle these glorified tin-snips. But no, he had to do it. OK then. Could he work out how to use the machine? Could he fck. Whilst he went off to find someone who knew, I did it myself and by the time he returned I was at the checkout.
Beaten you to it, I am already restoring a farmhouse in Italy. There's none of this shit regulation, a friend over there who is the electrician at the local textile factory came up to help me do the wiring and thought that the idea that only certificated individuls could work on systems was hilarious "the sort of shit that the Germans come up with".
I already have and use test equipment. I would have to purchase certified/calibrated equipment were I requird to fill in certificates.
That is correct. When I attended the C&G2381 certification course a short time ago there was an electrician (cum gas fitter and any other skilled trade you can think of....) who had just returned from living and working in Australia (personally I feel the guy must either be barmy, or Aus is a lot worse than it is made out to be....) where he practiced as an electrician.
He said it is mandatory that anyone who works on electrical installation is an approved contractor.
Andrew
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Likewise. I also spoke to mine recently and put it to him that this succession of legislation in different areas to do with building and home improvement is rapidly becoming an infringement of the "Englishman's home is his castle" principle and getting quite close to the civil liberties area. He certainly agreed that this was yet another piece of overkill legislation that would likely be unenforceable and therefore virtually pointless.
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
From the chaotic regions of the Cryptosphere, Andrew McKay wrote on Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:29:38
+0100:
The consultation paper is at
From the chaotic regions of the Cryptosphere, parish wrote on Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:43:04 +0000:
Are there any Scottish BCOs in this group (even if you're lurking)? There are a number of Eng&W BCOs here, but it would be useful to get an insight into how the Scottish system of control differs. This IS a UK group after all.
The BCO's I've met up here are just ordinary guys who know the jobs and let you do yours. I find them pretty consistent with the methods of regulation and what they'll let you get away with. They also seem to be on the same page as to what needs and has to be done before they'll let the job through to the next stage. Yes, all in all, I find them easy to work with on all our projects.
BigWallop wrote re Scottish BCOs:
Would you know anything about BCOs in Sutherland? We're considering some major work.
Sheila
From the chaotic regions of the Cryptosphere, "BigWallop" wrote on Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:20:55 GMT:
I'm sure that Scottish BCOs are as professional as their Southern colleagues, that they have a similar proportion of good-guys vs. cowboys, etc., and know the ins-and-outs of the Scottish Building Act & Regulations. It's just that they differ from the Building Act and Building Regulations in England & Wales. AFAIK, they don't have Approved Inspectors or Building Notices; building work can't start until a Warrant has been issued; and (the thing that sparked it off in my mind (no pun intended)), they have some regulations relating to electrical installations. From the perspective of an English BCO, these things are foreign, so I was wondering if any Scottish BCOs would like to chip in with how such matters work North of the border.
I can tell you how it worked for someone I know who does work there. BS7671 is called up by the building regs and therefore all electrical work must conform to it. However, there is no requirement to notify BCO's of any electrical work, and no requirement for them or anyone else to inspect it, although they may inspect it if they want to. Typically, it gets inspected by the BCO if it's part of a job where other things are being inspected, i.e. part of some construction work, and not otherwise. If the work was done by an electrical company, the BCO will usually just ask for the completion certificate, and if it was DIY, the BCO will check it themselves, but they can't demand that you get it check/tested by someone else.
I don't know how well that agrees with what's supposed to happen, but I'm told this is what happens in practice.
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