Re: Chandlers released. (Somalia)

[Huge]

Yes, but I *so* wanted one of these;

[js.b1]

Case in point, there are currently 400 sailors kidnapped in Somalia.

If they achieve 500k for each one, quite possible, then the total is

200 Million for a probably outlay of under 2 Million which suggests this is organised crime at the highest levels re payoffs. Avoiding the area seems like a pretty good idea - plenty of ocean out there to go pottering around and 500 miles off shore means you might as well be anywhere on the planet excluding areas frequented by icebergs... and polar bears on large mints.

[The Natural Philosopher]

The problem is, how do you know it isn't just a fishing boat in distress, until you get boarded?

[The Natural Philosopher]

that's the sort of thing every home should have, come peak oil.

[cynic]

A naval vessel with Apache helicopters on board would be an excellent patrol vehicle. Maybe our new aircraft carrier which it is suggested in the press will have helicopters instead of aircraft might be usefully employed out there?. Or how about an A10 or an AC130 on loan from the merikans - now thats SERIOUS firepower. These have night vision and detailed long range optics to identify numbers of people on board from on high, even such details as weaponry.

[The Natural Philosopher]

What we want is killer subs, that silently and deniably sink any fishing boat outside a 100 mile exclusion zone.

whether or not its guilty of anything.

[cynic]

Every time the priates succeed is another step to handing control to them. Appeasement failed before the 2nd world war and it is failing still

[Man at B&Q]

No, the line has to be drawn. So we lose a few hostages in the process but prevent many more being taken in the future.

How do you propose to show the pirates that piracy will not pay?

MBQ

[js.b1]

Not necessarily, our tourist & immigration visa's plus visiting the

300,000 "relatives" in the UK means they could quite easily create a situation in the UK. Not difficult to derail just about every high speed train in britain by a concerted attack to attacking a nursery.

It appears cash drops were made, if they were paper money the numbers are traceable re location. Not much use, but over time you build up a behaviour pattern. Essentially it requires a non-military spy network in somalia, and bribes can be particularly effective where indemnity is offered.

Basically NATO needs to deploy several small intercept vessels in the area to escort what is a major merchant shipping path. A long running problem is the lack of speed, a nuclear carrier will do 29-33knot but far more effective might be carrier borne predators. The problem is the cost of deployment vs hostage cost, it is a "niggling cost" compared to the military costs. That said, I do not understand why shipping is not being escorted in convoy - piracy has always existed, but concerted piracy has always been attacked. Money for domes and ruddy modern art monuments, but not defending shipping - ridiculous.

[John Rumm]

Seems rather like overkill though using those sort of assets for fairly mundane tasks...

Yup an AWACS type surveillance platform and some drones would do the job nicely... part of the difficulty is the vast area to patrol, hoping to bump into a pirate ship with another surface ship is akin to finding the needle in the haystack. An AC130U is possibly a bit ott, although that would scare the living shit out of anyone on wrong end of one!

Yup the all light level TV system on that is quite cute... (got lots of my software in it making it work as well!) ;-)

[John Rumm]

Bit late for that, its well known that it pays exceedingly well...

[dennis]

We already patrol the area with similar ships. there is even a TV series showing what they do, I think its on Tuesday evenings on a Sky channel.

[js.b1]

We being various in fact.

The problem is the ship takes 40-minutes, the helicopter 10-minutes, the pirates meanwhile are gone because they know the response times plus a margin which is worth the chance. The reason is the "pirate" might be a genuine fishing vessel, and thus whilst they may be known early on via radar their friend or foe status is unknown until an incident arises.

So basically every vessel has to be challenge-response, but there are too many vessels for the military to intercept in terms of time to engagement.

Which is why they need to be in convoy on fixed times - no doubt the merchant shipping crowd have decided that it is not practical in terms of delivery penalties and fewer trips per year, ie, it is cheaper to pay the pirates. The pirates are effectively exploiting an oligopoly which are rare in business, but either very lucrative or very difficult to remove.

Tankbusters, AC10s, offer faster time to target, but their real benefit is in the computer controlled "spiralling-cone" (can nt recall the name) aiming system which actively guarantees the target is hit unlike conventional mini-guns, chain-guns etc under human control. I suspect the real solution is roving predators, perhaps eventually solar powered, which would actively track many vessels with optics etc so achieving better engagement. Then it comes back to do they have one port or several in terms of having people in Somalia but Somalia is not receptive to that (unsurprising considering the sums involved).

Roving predator boats which are robot controlled are a reality now, NY & Florida are either buying them or evaluating them. They use either

7.62mm or 0.50cal machine guns remotely controlled (a worrying thought!) but are extremely fast and can track & engage multiple targets via auto-pilot with remote fire control. On an open sea they might not be viable (or survivable).

Bottom line appears to be escorted convoys, but modern freight transit times are such that any delay is not viable.

[Nightjar]

The pirates attack from more than one boat and use grapples to board large ships while running alongside. I don't really see how to protect against that without major modifications, like the anti-grapple toppings on prison walls.

Colin Bignell

[John Rumm]

Some ships deploy water cannon IIUC to disrupt or sink the small craft when they get too close.

[Andy Burns]

This system claims to swamp and sink the attacking craft, the video seems to show it might just give them a shower on the way up their ladders

[geoff]

In message , "dennis@home" writes

Who's this "we" denise?

THEY are real men with backbone

Must be true then

[dennis]

Yes they would stand up when people are committing crimes and not hide in the corner in case they were called a grass like you hide.

[ARWadsworth]

There is no bigger grass than you Den.

[geoff]

In message , "dennis@home" writes

WTF are you ranting on about now

I was referring to as being spineless and not someone who should be trying to associate yourself with them