Rayburn efficiency?

[Andy Hall]

How do you heat the house?

[Peter Parry]

It is nonetheless a part, and whilst one may be able to cook in or on anything its much easier on most days to have some idea of the temperature being used. I do agree with you though that without an understanding of basic food chemistry and processes cooking can easily become an unrewarding "monkey see, monkey do" process.

Most I would think, it isn't difficult. Those who wouldn't will be equally happy warming up their M&S readydinners in an Aga or whatever else they choose to use.

Only when it's a hobby. When you have to live off primitive cooking you begin to realise why women in countries where it is a necessity rarely get educated or escape the home - cooking even dull staples becomes a full time job. Peering into a pot and saying "what's that with the legs?" to be answered with "Not sure - wasn't there when I put it on the fire" has a limited long term attraction.

[Ophelia]

LOL

Windswept Ophelia in Scotland

[Ophelia]

Too true:) but then we are looking at the reality not dreams:)

[Owain]

Ah, but if one happens to be short and hairy one then runs the risk of being mistaken for a haggis and being shot.

Owain

[Peter Parry]

I don't doubt that you find it adequate, I require a higher temperature in a grill than an oven can achieve (and it doesn't involve charring things either).

From the Aga servicing list :-

• Check operation of all functional controls and components. * Test safety devices. * Confirm correct gas pressures. * Clean burners and internal flue-ways. * Inspect/Replace rope seals and gaskets. * Adjust operation of insulating lids and doors. * Verify level and if necessary top up insulation. * Visual safety check of oil line and storage tank. * Check for gas soundness. * Check integrity and safety of electrical connections and insulation. * Ensure flue system and ventilation is correct. * Clean circulation and/or oven venting fans.

Inspect the ropes and top up the insulation? It supposed to be a cooker not the engine room of the Titanic!

With one exception, a very aged Electrolux with bang bang control and a minimum cycle time of about 5 minutes on the hob plates I've never had one that can't.

So is a haybox.

"Recent" Aga? The last major revamp was about 1970. Most owners won't have a problem because (in common with many overly expensive cookers) most owners never cook anything in or on them.

They are? Why would they introduce an error of 20% when inefficiency is something they mention many times and try to minimise the significance of in all their literature?

"An Aga is a heavily insulated, heat storage cooker, designed to provide all the heat required for cooking operations, whilst consuming the minimum of fuel. It is therefore possible to predict the typical, weekly fuel consumption for each model, based on average use."

It is difficult to understand why they would overstate this figure to any extent, indeed it would make much more sense for them to try to minimise it as much as they can. By any standard 75kW/hr a day every day of the year for a cooker is dire.

[Andy Hall]

That is, of course, a stupid comment, demonstrating a prejudiced view of regional cooking.

You may wish to read the various reviews of the place and the chef before making a further fool of yourself.

I didn't say that an Aga is suitable for commercial, grand scale cooking, but this does not detract from its efficacy for domestic purposes.

You asked for some examples of commercial use and I gave you some.

In terms of Michelin star ratings, in the UK in 2004, there were 98 with 1 star, 11 with two and three with 3 stars. Having said that, I've eaten at examples of all of them and had quality of food and service worse and better than I would have expected.

The UK has had a reputation for poor cuisine, largely deserved as a result of poor expectation and mass production of food. I think that in some places, it has improved considerably over the last few years.

I travel extensively outside the UK as well as inside and have the opportunity and pleasure of eating at some of the best restaurants in different countries as measured by recommendation and review. I also have a very broad taste in terms of national cuisines and there are few things that I dislike.

As with other purchases, I look for very high standards and quality if I can get them and certainly won't accept poor service in the context of the price paid and the expectation set.

Given that as a background, I like regional English dishes, provided that they are well prepared with good quality ingredients just as much as I like, for example, regional French, Italian or even Finnish cooking. I wouldn't want any of them every day.

[Steve Firth]

Well, I don't know what they do, but our total energy consumption for a five bedroomed Georgian pile of a house in the UK is 380kW a week, that's electricity, LPG (for the cooker hob), oil and wood for central heating and DHW. So you can see why we ditched the Aga, other than of course the fact that the Aga is crap at cooking, unless one wishes to eat a monotonous diet of toast and yet another slow cooked stew.

Agas, the cooker for people who actually believe all that Mills and Boon crap.

[Mary Fisher]

But you SAID they were stodgy!

You mean you can't tell its condition by sight and resilience?

I was once given a meat thermometer. Most people try to give me food related presents, they know my passion. Because it was a present from someone I loved I used it. I could see no value in it at all so it somehow became lost ... as do many gadgets. They're simply not necessary.

Mary

>

[Mary Fisher]

What's a barbeque?

I cook well without booze, I prefer to enjoy with the meal, not spoil my appetite and palate beforehand.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

I bow to your greater experience, we don't read newspapers, having discovered that they're unreliable.

That's an understatement ...

You name it! Bread will go in first then things which don't need such a high temperature. It depends what I want to cook at the time. The heat won't be wasted - I shall plan in a different way from how I plan now.

I'm particularly looking forward to roasting meat. Hot smoking will also be done.

What's an improper wood fired oven?

:-)

Mary

[Ophelia]

Depends which way you are running around the mountain:)

[Andy Hall]

I see. A bit like parts of Holland then, although hopefully it doesn't smell of pig shit.

They simmer, as they should.

Obviously.

I never have difficulty with this. It's really very simple. If you want to boil and then simmer something, you put it on the boiling plate and then when oiling transfer it to the simmering plate.

Only if you're stupid. First of all, it isn't intended that you put something on the boiling plate for any length of time anyway, let alone leave it. I see no reason for the risk to be any greater with an Aga than any other form of cooker, if one is stupid enough to do that.

Hmmm... That depends on the temperature a the time. Equally, one sees gas hobs with 3 and 4kW main and 6kW wok burners, so I don't buy the power argument.

You have to look at the design of the internals. I have some photos taken during installation, or there are diagrams on Aga's web site. Temperature gradients are achieved by position of the burner relative to the boiling plate, flue gases being directed past the roasting oven and then connecting sections of metal linking the simmering and warming ovens to the roasting and baking ovens.

For a given location, the temperature achieved depends on the heat input at that place as well as the heat loss. Thus a temperature gradient is formed by the way that the internal castings are connected together as well as by convection in the ovens themselves.

If you are used to a fan oven, you may not be familiar with the advantages of temperature gradient within an oven.

Hmm. I wouldn't describe it as particularly special purpose though, since the innards replace cake tins and the outer provides a 5 litre pan.

THere isn't a lot that can be changed in a design that is tried and tested and works well. The modulating burner was an obvious one.

Not really. Horse, bear, whale, but not labrador.

I tended to find it pretty overwhelming, even in the winter, partly because one needs to stand at a hob for far more of the time attending to things.

I think that they are being conservative to avoid accusations of unrealistic figures.

I've found Aga-Rayburn to be great to deal with in terms of customer service. For example, I found a tiny blemish in the enamel of the top in a place that can not normally be seen without crouching down and looking carefully. A quick phone call and they had a person out the following day with a replacement, no questions asked.

Not really. It depends on what is needed to provide heating for the house in general.

[Andy Hall]

Not really. At 700W or even up to full input, this is not significant in comparison with a heating boiler.

[Andy Hall]

Anything like that which I can't eat much of I describe to myself as stodgy so that I won't be tempted.

Generally I can but prefer not to take chances.

[Andy Hall]

My total energy usage is in the same area.

I think that what you actually mean is that you were crap at cooking with yours.

[Andy Hall]

I don't know what you're doing then.

The list is perfectly reasonable for any gas appliance. The rope seals referred to are those around the oven doors and can be visually checked quite easily. The insulation level can be checked by lifting the rings around the plates. Neither are exactly difficult.

I wouldn't know.

Not my experience from people I know with them.

I can only tell you what I've measured.

[Mary Fisher]

So you didn't mean that they were stodgy.

Hmm. That could lead to a lack of credibility in other posts ...

Mary

[Peter Parry]

After 30 seconds in the standing "breeze" what it smells like is immaterial, your nose has been scoured by the sand to bare bone.

You may see no reason for it but it is. Firstly because it is much easier for things to catch fire, in this respect it is on par with an electric hob rather than a gas one and secondly because people seem to use bigger containers on them so there is more immediate fuel. I'm not sure if the size of the heated area and the inability to turn them off plays a part but they are somewhat more of a hazard than other cooker types.

If you have something like a chip pan and add too many soggy chips it will boil over onto a gas hob and usually put the flame out without igniting. Do the same on an electric hob or Aga and the result is spectacular. Whatever the reason the data (1990-1995 - fires in Norfolk and Suffolk) shows a greater than expected number of Aga related fires.

I am familiar with them.

You are missing my point - to have a significant temperature gradient you have to have significant heat loss. Once steady state has been achieved then if the container is well insulated everything within it will be at the same temperature. That various conductive pathways have made some bits get hotter faster than others is immaterial.

I am well familiar with the concept and practice of temperature gradient within an oven and it has no advantages - that's why I prefer fan ovens.

Without it you get a dried out cake with an uncooked inside or a pound of dried cooked sawdust.

As a method of saving the servants from topping up the coal several times a day it is unrivalled. That was its only design aim. I suppose it is possible that they also stumbled upon the ultimate cooker at the same time but consider that to be unlikely. I do find it a bit surprising that in the Nordic countries, which would benefit from the "continuous heat" the year around, it is virtually unknown and of course the Swedish company whose name it bears ditched it some

50 years ago.

Far worse.

I think they are probably sailing as close to the wind as they can already :-).

You inspect your cooker by crouching down and inspecting the bits you can't usually see!!

A replacement cooker? What with that and the number they give away free to "celebrities" it is no wonder the thing costs over GBP5,000

From June to September usually nothing.

[Andy Hall]

How would you define stodgy?